Since Josh Turner started LinkedSelling in 2011, the company has gone on to be named multiple times in the Inc. 500 list of the fastest-growing companies in the US.
His workshops, systems, and software for getting leads and clients have been taught and implemented by over 500,000 business owners and entrepreneurs, generating over $1 Billion in client sales.
Josh is also the Wall Street Journal best-selling author of two books, “Connect” and “Booked”, and the founder of Connect 365, a sales automation platform that scales your leads and sales with software.
They represent clients across the globe, in a wide variety of industries. He is considered one of the leading experts in the world when it comes to growing your business using LinkedIn.
What you will learn
- The software and automation you need to scale your lead generation and sales
- The importance of learning from your failures
- The books and people that inspired Josh Turner
- The importance of focus
- Why hiring the right people is vital
- Mistakes to avoid in business
- Why Entrepreneurs should work on their business rather than in it
- The importance of energy management
Jeff Bullas: Hey everyone. Welcome to Jeff Bullas show. Today we're going to be meeting with Josh Turner. Josh is a Wall Street Journal bestselling author of “Connect” and “Booked”. He is also the founder and CEO of LinkedSelling. A B2B sales development and lead generation agency.
Josh is also the founder of Connect 365, an outbound lead generation and sales automation platform.
They represent clients across the globe in a wide variety of industries. He is considered one of the leading experts in the world when it comes to growing a business using LinkedIn. Since starting LinkedSelling in 2011, the company has gone on to be nine multiple times in the Inc 500 list of fastest growing companies in the US. His Workshops systems and software for getting leads and clients are being taught and implemented by over 500,000 business owners and entrepreneurs. Generating over one billion in sales for his clients.
Welcome to the show Josh, and it's great to catch up here. What's happening in your part of the world with this current situation really?
Josh Turner: It seems like the same thing that's happening to everybody. We might be dating this a little bit if we talk about it. But obviously anybody who's listening to this months or years from now will probably still remember the time where we had the Coronavirus pandemic.
Jeff Bullas: That's right.
Josh Turner: I'm here in my home office today. I haven't been to my office in a couple of weeks. We're just really grateful that our company is in a position where we're really used to working remote and virtual. I mean, there was nothing we had to do to transition our people from going back home to work. They're very accustomed to doing that. We're grateful in that regard and the company is doing pretty good, staying afloat. We're still selling new clients, keeping most of them that we had before and still planning on hitting our growth goals this year. I'm grateful for that. My family's healthy and we're seeing a lot more of each other, but we're enjoying the time together so thanks.
Jeff Bullas: I think it's going to bring people closer even though we're not close physically, I think in terms of holding each others hearts. Hopefully, well, I'm sure will find It'll bring humanity closer because we've got a common enemy. Let's just go back to how you got into LinkedSelling and Connect 365. I suppose go back to, if you give a bit of a thumbnail sketch. What was your first career and then how did you get into Connect 365 and LinkedSelling? Because you were a CFO for quite a while, weren't you?
Josh Turner: Yeah, I was. My lineage of what brought me to this place started in high school. Because when I was in high school, my dad had a business where he was finishing basements. Construction, remodeling company, focus on finishing basements. I worked in that company after school sometimes. Sometimes on weekends through high school. In college, I worked in the summers full time with him. Then sometimes when I came home and I learned the entire business and had planned on being a part of that business, once I graduated college. But when I was 21, he totally ran out of work during the tech bubble burst, whatever we call that in 2001 and he had to shut his doors. I saw it firsthand. I was there when it happened. It was during the summer when I was 21, when I was working there that he was like, "this is our last day, we're shutting the doors."
Josh Turner: I saw how a business can fail and that always stuck with me. Then when I ended up graduating college, a couple years later. I was able to parlay the experience working in my dad's construction business, into getting a job in the finance department of another construction company. A little bit bigger than his, but still a small company. From the time I worked there from the time in 2003 to 2009, we grew that company from about five million in annual revenue to at the peak in 2008, 23 million in annual revenue. That company was very exposed. We did a lot of high end residential. When the crisis in 2008, 2009 came along, boy, that company just got the wind taken out of its sales completely. Just the year, 2009, we just burned through all the backlogs that the company had, all the work we had on the books and no new sales were coming in.
Josh Turner: No one was starting any new construction projects. In November 2009, that company was forced to shut its doors. I was hired on to just be general Jack of all trades finance guy in that company. Then eventually a couple years later was promoted to be the CFO. A right place, right time thing. I was pretty young for the gig, but was working hard and a lot of hours and we were growing a lot. It was a great experience for me. When the company closed in 2009, I had a little time to think about what do I really want to do? I wanted to do my own thing. If you go back to those times, it was really the whole idea of online entrepreneurship. Starting online businesses and being in business for yourself was really gaining a lot of momentum at that time.
Jeff Bullas: It was.
Josh Turner: I was seeing people starting online businesses and working for themselves. I had been dabbling in some of it for a few years leading up to that. I built an E-commerce site that failed. I did a couple other things that didn't go anywhere. But it was like practicing and learning before I really needed to make it work. I just knew I want to do my own thing. I don't want to go get another job somewhere. I started working as an outsource CFO in early 2010 was when I started basically a consulting business by myself. Worked by myself for the next two years and I had a client who I was helping with spreadsheets, which is what an outsourced CFO does. Helps people with their spreadsheets.
Jeff Bullas: Right.
Josh Turner: I had one of those clients that saw that I was doing some things on LinkedIn to market my business. It was one of the primary ways that I was growing the CFO business. One of my CFO clients said," Hey, that's stuff you're doing on LinkedIn. Do you think that would work for us?" I said, "yeah, I would do X, Y, and Z." They said," it makes a lot of sense. Why don't you just do it for us? Because we don't, we don't know what you're talking about." At the time this is late 2011, there was really nobody who was using LinkedIn for proactive business development. Very few people were doing it, especially as a business, as a service for other companies. I said, "okay I don't see anyone else out there that we could hire to do this for you. Let me see if I can do it for you. That was the beginning of Linked Selling.
Josh Turner: We now have clients all over the world who hire us to implement our methodology for using not just LinkedIn. We've really evolved over the years to where now we have a full multichannel, outbound sales development campaign that we run for clients that includes LinkedIn phone, email and advertising on Facebook and LinkedIn. In a really cohesive multichannel campaign that generates sales appointments, further sales teams. Like you said, we've really been fortunate to grow a lot.
Josh Turner: We've been on the Inc 500, a couple of times. Just been blessed to be a part of this company that is ... when I started business, I didn't have any real goals of creating a company that was going to be something really bigger than me. Now I feel really blessed to be a part of it. Along the way, we created a software business called Connect 365. Which is a sales automation tool that helps people use email in a more personal way to build trust and relationships so that people actually open your emails and reply to your emails. You can get more leads and sales appointments and clients using it. That's where we're at today.
Jeff Bullas: Because that's a very interesting place to play Isn't it?. Because we're in the middle of the battle of the algorithms where emails aren't open as much because Gmail decided to create tabs. Then you've had the likes of Infusionsoft and other platforms that have become less effective. That's what you've tried to do is try and discover different tools and tactics to actually help to generate leads. Because now it's interesting when you're talking about ... I know your story because we met in Chicago, six or, seven years ago at a mastermind with Danny Iny.
Jeff Bullas: That was a high moment for me, I was creating great content. I was getting a lot of traffic to my website, but I wasn't generating leads. Then I bumped into you and Rob Brown, and I had an aha moment. I need to be generating leads. I wasn't really effectively working on building my email list. It was very ad hoc.
And we caught up for lunch. You told me a story. What I loved about what you told me before and what you just told our listeners is that the inspiration, I suppose and motivation for you to get into this business was a pain point of seeing your father's business fail.
Jeff Bullas: Then see another business, fail and go, what is the reason for this? Well, at the end of the day, you need to be generating leads. Tell us a little bit more about what's inspired. Well not only really inspired but what are the mentors that have helped you along the way? What books that maybe that were helpful to you? I know a lot of our listeners actually do want to know what supports you on this journey. Have you had mentors, has there been books that have helped you? Blogs you've read?
Josh Turner: Yeah. I mean, early on, there were a couple things that I was into before I really went full time working for myself. In 2008, 2009, I was paying attention to a lot of what Gary Vaynerchuk was saying. His stuff is much more focused at somebody who's wanting to get started. Then often times now that's not as applicable to me where I'm at in my business, but I'm still a big fan of him today and followed him. He was a big inspiration for me in 08, 09 with some of the things he was doing online that were really at the time, very forward thinking. Moving his family's wine business from a retail to online. Using online video with the show Wine Library, TV, and just how he was leveraging media to grow a traditional brand.
Josh Turner: In addition to him, Chris Guillebeau. When I was getting started, he was an inspiration to me because he was talking a lot about how to make money doing little simple things. He really showed, he had one of his first books called The Art of Non-conformity. It's really a book about how to work for yourself. That was really inspiring to me in 2009 and 2010. Gave me confidence that other people are doing this. Wow, look at all these examples of how people are making money. Just being creative and working hard and how the internet is enabling this to happen. Those are two people that inspired me early on. As my company has grown the mentorship along the way, one of my earlier mentors. I would say it was in 2011, was a guy named Bill Pronett who's in St. Louis.
Josh Turner: He's a coach. St Louis coach But also just the general management and leadership coach and consultant who specializes in working with family businesses. Bill was a great mentor to me in the first few years I was running my business, helping me to think ahead. One of the things that he kind of implored me to do was to take time on a regular basis to think about where I really want to go with the company. What am I really trying to do with this? What's the vision for what you're trying to create? Because of that I took his advice and I started going. Once every couple of weeks, I would sit at a coffee shop on a Friday morning. I'd spend a couple of hours just thinking about the business plan and what am I doing beyond just the CFO stuff and getting clients. What do I really want this to look like?
Josh Turner: It was spending that time really thinking about the business and not just putting out fires and working on the work. That's what really allowed me to set the foundation for what the company eventually became. His guidance was really important early on. Then fast forward a little bit, I would say over the last few years, I'm a part of EO, entrepreneurs organization. Being a part of EO has been a great thing for my company and the friendships I've made in there. Essentially I have a small group that I'm a part of within EO. There's five of us in my group now.
Josh Turner: These people have really become almost like an advisory board, if you will, in a sense. That's been really big for me as well. I would say being a part of EO has been good as well. There's a lot of other books out there and stuff and business books that I think have nice little things in them and stuff like that. I gathered a little bit here and there from him, but there's nothing that's like my Bible.
Jeff Bullas: A lot of different people find that some people actually do have mentors who are people. Other people seem to get a lot of their inspiration mainly from books. Some people don't like reading. It's really fascinating to hear Josh.
Josh Turner: I read more nonfiction, history, things like that. Because I mean, I'm spending all day on business at night. I don't want to read business books anymore. I'm still like right now I'm really into world war II stuff. It will be something else next month.
Jeff Bullas: Why World War II?
Josh Turner: I just think it's a fascinating era that most people today don't really know much about. There's so much to it. There's so much to learn. You start reading about the entire war and you learn all this stuff that you never learned in school. There was actually more to it than just Normandy. If you read a book like The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, it's fascinating to learn about the crazy stuff that was going on over there at the time.
Jeff Bullas: History can teach us many things. I think that's what I love about books. I've certainly read a lot of historical fictional code, missionary and so on. But it's really, for me, I've been in love with books ever since I was five. I remember waiting for our parents because we had a 8:30 lights off policy in the family home when I was growing up. Soon as I discovered books, I fell in love with them. I became the librarians, best friend, I think. I remember sometimes parents would turn the lights off at night. I went, okay, so they got a bed and I wait for it to be quiet. Then I would quietly turn my bedside lamp off, bring it under the covers. I would read until literally I would wake up in the morning with the lamp basically burning next to me under the covers.
Jeff Bullas: I've been a book lover ever since I was five or six. It's good to actually look at some of the stories. Some of the series I've been watching are Vikings and so on, they have given me insights into history about the Vikings that I never knew about actually invaded Paris. That stuff it's really, and then the lessons we can learn from it. Josh, now you started the business and everyone says, I want to be an entrepreneur or I am an entrepreneur. What were some of the challenges because it's not a straight path, is it? What were some of the biggest challenges you've faced and how did you overcome them?
Josh Turner: Well, there's always, there's always different challenges that pop up. That's for sure. I mean, we're in the middle of one right now with the Coronavirus. I mean, we've been through this kind of thing in the past. I've been fortunate to see how businesses fail. We're in a position now with my company. Now we're in a very good spot, some of it just has to do with the work that we do, the industry we're in and some of those things. It's not to say, if I owned a restaurant right now, somehow I'd be doing great when everyone else isn't. But I'd say that overall our growth path has been really just constantly like this. It's hard for me to say what we would change, but I will say that earlier I would have built a sales team sooner.
Josh Turner: I would have made some different decisions in the hiring process. But that's, I mean, everybody's going to say that while they're growing a business, you're not going to bet a thousand with new hires. But at the same time, I think that this is a bit of a catch 22. But one of the things I think is that at times our company has done is tried to do too much when maybe we would have been better off to focus on fewer initiatives. However, some of the things that we tried are now the core components of our business today. Had I not had a mindset from the get go of let's be aggressive and let's try new things. Let's bolt on new services and do a lot of different stuff and expand outside of our initial product offering. Had we not done that we wouldn't be where we're at today because we would have never invested in building a development team to launch a SaaS business, for example.
Josh Turner: There's a handful of other examples too. But with that, there's a number of product lines that we've started over the last six or seven years that we don't support them anymore in our company. They're just not part of our company anymore. Right?
Jeff Bullas: Yeah.
Josh Turner: Even million dollar a year revenue streams that we've essentially decided we're not going to do that anymore. Those can be difficult decisions to make when you have to say, "you know what, we're going to give up some revenue. But that's going to hopefully allow us to better focus on where we think our real core competencies are." That's one of those things where you just don't know sometimes until you try stuff.
Jeff Bullas: Exactly. You've gotten credit, I suppose, just different services. See if they work, throw it against the wall, give it a go. Some work, some don't. LinkedSelling Josh, what are the core components of it?
Is it a training or education program as well as you do “Done For You” services?
Josh Turner: Yeah, there's a couple of different types of companies we serve. We have all the way from startup to much bigger corporations with big sales teams. At the end of the day, a one man shop somebody working out of their house or just getting started. Is probably going to be looking for a solution that they're going to learn how to implement on their own. We have software as well as training solutions for people in that situation to help them get more prospects in the door. Just to what you said earlier about my experiences working with my dad's company, et cetera. About the importance of generating leads and keeping your pipeline full.
Josh Turner: Businesses that don't have systems to generate leads are substantially more at risk than those who do. There's been a lot of studies that clearly show that and it just makes sense intuitively. That's one side of the business and then bigger companies usually hire us to implement our fully outsourced service. Where our team does all of the work to run LinkedIn phone and email campaigns sometimes combined as well with Facebook and LinkedIn advertising. To implement a full multichannel approach to getting in front of the right prospects and driving them into a sales appointment. That's it.
Jeff Bullas: So….LinkedSelling basically does training for small companies and also provides Done For You Services for larger companies to help them generate leads.
Now Connect 365, tell me a little bit more about that. What was the inspiration and motivation to start a “software as a service” (SaaS) company? Because they can be difficult because they're basically built on a subscription model and you got to worry about churn. What motivated you to actually go well, I'm going to do a software as a service startup, essentially? As you started, I think it's just over three years ago.
Josh Turner: Yeah. Well, for starters, I was looking at how do we create a more valuable business? Our company is becoming a little bit more mature, even though it's still not that old of a company. We started LinkedSelling in 2012, but here we are eight years later and we have a management team. There's just people looking at how do we create this company in a way to where it's creating a lot of long term value for our employees and our team. One of the ways to do that is to have a much greater emphasis on software and technology as part of the business. If you look at valuations for marketing agencies, they're much less than software as a service businesses. As we go out and look at growing the company in different ways and potentially bringing on investors. We want to create a scenario where our company receives as high a valuation as possible.
Josh Turner: I felt adding a layer of software into our business would make a lot of sense from that perspective. Then it was just a matter of, well, what makes sense for us to do. There were some really key things that were part of our process that we were doing manually at the time. That we were able to automate using Connect 365 which we didn't have it at the time. But we thought, Hey, we could build a technology solution, a software platform that could do these things that we're currently doing with spreadsheets and manual tracking. A lot of loosely tied together processes. We knew this is something that we will use internally. This is something we will use for our clients. Maybe we can sell it to people as standalone offer and product. We started building it and had to figure out how to build software and make some mistakes.
Josh Turner: It took longer than it probably should have and all those things. But at the end of the day, we still have the same people that we brought on for our development team. That created Connect 365 at the beginning, are still with us today and doing amazing work. Fast forward a little bit, and we really just got the product to the point where we started with a couple of hundred customers using it. Some of our closest private customers and such were able to really iterate based on the feedback we were getting from them and really improve the tool over the first year and a half. To the point where we were seeing great results with it and felt confident enough that we could share it with a much bigger audience of customers. We started actively promoting it as a subscription standalone service software, if you will. I think a couple of years ago.
Josh Turner: It hasn't really been that long since we really started trying to grow it. Now we have several thousand customers. It's been great and it's become a much bigger part of our business. It's the software side of our business is getting close to 40% of our total revenue now.
Jeff Bullas: Wow.
Josh Turner: It's all playing out pretty well. Of course, we think that it has the ability to grow faster than it does. But we're really doing a lot right now with partnerships. Obviously, Jeff, we've partnered with you in a big way and other folks in our affiliate network who are really getting behind it. That has propelled our growth big time. Also, really doubling down on ad channels into our automated webinars and such. We're really investing right now in the growth of Connect 365. Really excited about the results that we're seeing for so many of our customers who are loving it and getting a lot more leads and clients as a result.
Jeff Bullas: Software as a service company are certainly one thing I've noticed over the last few years. I've been much more involved with software as a service company including you guys and others. What's great about them as a business model is they can scale much more rapidly can't they. Because if you're going to be doing Done For Your Services that involves hiring people, building, getting a bigger office or bigger virtual offices. You can scale a software as a service company. Tell us a little bit more about how do you generate leads? You mentioned partnerships and affiliate. What's been your main driver of growth. A lot of people don't understand how you can use partnerships. I interviewed Emerich from Agorapulse. He doubled down on influences as opposed to big advertising spins for his main competitors ambassadors. You've done it in a different way. You can tell us a bit more about, I suppose, if you key ways you've actually built, generated leads. Well subscriptions, basically monthly.
Josh Turner: Yeah. Specifically for Connect 365. It's really, I would say three things. Number one, all of the initial growth to get us maybe to our first thousand customers was promoted to our existing database. A lot of people start software businesses and they don't have an existing database they're starting from scratch. Well, we had an existing business with 100,000 people on our email list. We were able to just start promoting to our existing lists and putting offers in front of them. That was where our initial growth came from. Then the next wave was two things. It was our affiliate and joint venture network of people like yourself. A lot of our other affiliates and friends in the industry who have gotten behind the product and shared it with their audience. Sometimes in exchange for a commission, sometimes in exchange for some other thing, depending. Happy to talk more about that if it's of interest.
Josh Turner: Then the third thing has been advertising. With Connect 365 specifically, because it's a lower price product. Facebook advertising is where we have focused because the costs are cheaper than on LinkedIn. But we do spend a lot of money on LinkedIn ads for our higher priced services. Those three things really it's promoting to our existing database, affiliates and Facebook advertising. Then what they're all driving into usually is some version of a webinar. Sometimes we'll position it as a boot camp. Sometimes it's a one off webinar and that's been really successful for us.
Jeff Bullas: I've been watching that over the last year or so. Certainly like your strategy. I think one of the key ones you were running was a five day boot camp. You basically ran five hours of training for free essentially to actually get people to believe and trust in the product. What's the product priced at?
Josh Turner: Well, the public price is $197 a month. That's for unlimited usage, unlimited contacts, unlimited emails, et cetera. But if you sign up for one of our webinars, then we have some special prices behind the scenes. We do some different things, but that's pretty much it.
Jeff Bullas: Let's just dive a little bit more into how your routine around your business.
So, you've also got a family. I know you've got a young family now. How do you balance your family life, business life and personal life? Is there a daily routine that you try to stick to as much as you possibly can?
Josh Turner: Yeah, usually. I mean, it depends on what's going on in the business. Because my role in the company can vary based on the season. But for the most part, the biggest thing for me has been I didn't have a family in the early years of the business. I was working a lot more hours then and I loved it. It was just fun working on marketing content and updating the website. 7:00 or 8:00 at night, whatever it would be. Doing meetings during the day, working on my marketing at night was very typical. But fast forward to now I have a family. I don't really have to do that anymore because we have a team that does a lot of that stuff. I'm more in a leadership position.
Josh Turner: As in a position to work on strategy. Have a couple of calls a week with potential clients who I've been referred to. I spend a lot of my time looking at marketing and sales related things. A lot of my time is spent on the software side of the business now. Really at the end of the day, I'm able to get a lot done in 40 or 50 hours a week. I think that a lot of people waste a lot of time and that if you really put in a solid 40 hours, you're going to get a lot done. Some weeks I'm looking for stuff to do.
Josh Turner: Typically, because our team is just doing so much, which gives me more time to be thinking about what's the next thing we should be focused on. What's the next thing we should decide to stop doing, which sometimes is equally important. Specifically though, I mean, my routine usually is I'll head off to the office around 7:45 in the morning. I spend the first hour or so. I wake up around 5:30 or 6:00, most days in the morning. My son wakes up around 6:30. I spend time with him, make him breakfast and play with him for a while. I leave around quarter to 8:00 to drive into the office. Usually I get home around 5:00, 5:15, 5:30 something like that. Then during the day I try and make sure I have enough space to be able to take lunches with people and not just be constantly like running on a hamster wheel.
Josh Turner: I'm really diligent about blocking out time on my calendar that nobody can put any appointments on. Being there for my team for whatever they need my help or for input on. That's pretty much the gist of it.
Jeff Bullas: You obviously decided to work on the business rather than in the business. That's being done by building a team that supports you in doing the daily activities which is great. Are any sort of habits you'd recommend that you'd build up over the years in terms of fitness learning that you would like to recommend to our listeners?
Josh Turner: Yeah. I think that for fitness I mean, I've learned over the last few years that it's not just about trying to stay healthy and not get overweight. For me it's about my daily energy management, because if I don't work out, then I'm not going to be able to maintain my best energy levels. I mean, I try and work out at least three or four times a week. I've been doing CrossFit for a few years. That's my preferred mode right now. I just think it's critical for me. Not just energy level, but also mindset. When you're running a business or in any high level position in a business where you really got to be on your A game and bring your best. I think that all that stuff is just so important.
Jeff Bullas: I think keeping mind and body fit are really important. Since I remember when I was 12 I had asthma as kid. I discovered that running for me was, I suppose one of my ways to get rid of the asthma, which it did actually. I've been a runner for the last 40 years and then switched to road cycling. I pretty well do a short burst of road cycling every day. For me routine too it's not just about the body fitness, it's the mind fitness. Keeping your mind sharp by reading good books, inspiring books, and also hanging out with great people, such as yourself, whether it's virtually or face to face. The other thing that I've certainly been doing over the last two or three decades has been meditation.
Jeff Bullas: Just 20 minutes of meditation, just trying to slow the mind down so I can be calm. It just creates a real centeredness for me. It's really important to look after the key aspects of your life. It sounds like you've done a good job of managing that over the years. Just to wind up Josh, if there was three key things you would like to recommend to our users as takeaways that they could do to grow a business. What would you say they would be from your perspective of being essentially an entrepreneur for the last almost a decade?
Josh Turner: Yeah, well, I think one of the big keys is to get somebody to take one of the key hats off your plate. When you're starting a business, you have to do everything. If you continue down that road, you really will be in a situation where your growth will be hampered. For me, it was bringing on my first employee who is Ben Kniffen. Who's now the president of our company. He was really quick to just take over operations so that he could focus on being the COO and I could focus on sales and marketing related stuff. I see a lot of companies that if you don't have a really key number two person, that can really hold you back. The other thing I would say is that this is probably even bigger than that. Because if you don't have leads and sales coming in, then you have no need for a number two person.
Josh Turner: You have to get to a certain level before you can afford to do that or justify it. There are so many people who aren't at the level to do that yet. Who really their number one priority should be just spending as much time as possible on their sales and marketing. Getting as many facts as possible and just building as many relationships as possible. Getting in front of more and more people and talking to lots of prospects because it's a numbers game. A lot of people out there are just really hesitant to do anything besides word of mouth and referrals. Clients that you get from referrals is great, but it's just totally uncontrollable for the most part. I know there's people out there that have systems and stuff, but most people are not using systems. They're just hoping that something will come in and it's not really a good plan.
Josh Turner: I would say spend more time on sales and marketing than you're doing. Invest in building new relationships and building your pipeline. The people who you do connect with, have conversations with, meet at events. The third thing I'll recommend is for those people, make sure you keep in touch with them. Connect 365 is a great way to do that but whatever tool or method you want to use. It's almost a waste of having conversations with people and meeting people and going to events and such. If you are not going to have a followup system to keep in touch with them, because the vast majority of the people aren't ready to do business with you today.
Jeff Bullas: Exactly.
Josh Turner: But if you stay in front of them and you keep in touch with them over the long haul. Then you're almost unstoppable and you create an amazing amount of momentum. Those are a few things I'd recommend.
Jeff Bullas: Great. That's great advice Josh. But just for our listeners, number one, try and get rid of one hat such as operations, such as you did, Josh. It doesn't have to be that, but might be sales and marketing. If you're more of the operations person. The second one was to keep working on lead sales and marketing and building those relationships. First touch lead gen. Then you're saying you need to make sure that you are nurturing those relationships. In other words, make sure that the potential customer doesn't forget you. That's great advice Josh. I think that's what every entrepreneur should be doing. Those three things. Josh, it's been great chatting with you. It's been about nine months since we caught up. I remember we caught up in a mastermind event in st. Louis last year. Always great to catch up in person and catch up with some of the other beautiful people that you have in your inner circle. Thank you very much, Josh. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show and we look forward to catching up in the near future.
Josh Turner: Yeah, same here. Jeff, always a pleasure to connect with you, man. I appreciate everything you're doing and appreciate you having me on.
Jeff Bullas: It's been a pleasure. Thank you.