Gabe Lullo is the CEO of Alleyoop, a sales development agency working with industry giants such as ZoomInfo, Salesloft, and Adobe.
He has trained over 8,000 salespeople across diverse businesses and, during his tenure at Alleyoop, he has personally hired and managed more than 1,500 SDRs.
With over two decades of experience in sales, marketing, and executive recruitment, his strategies have significantly driven Alleyoop’s growth and shaped its corporate culture.
Beyond his career accomplishments, Gabe graduated from the Barney School of Business at the University of Hartford and his leadership ethos is rooted in cultivating environments that prioritize both professional development and individual success.
What you will learn
- Why great salespeople don’t always sound like salespeople—and how authenticity wins.
- How AI tools are being used in sales for real-time call scoring, objection handling, and personalized prospect research.
- Why content + cold calls is the winning combo in modern sales (and why email is losing power).
- How LinkedIn content builds social proof—and what not to do when connecting with potential clients.
- How Gabe built a successful sales agency by spotting a gap in lead generation and training SDRs with AI-powered support.
Transcript
Jeff Bullas
00:00:04 – 00:00:40
Hi everyone from all around the world! Today, I have with me Gabe Lullo. Now Gabe is the CEO of Alleyoop, a sales development agency working with industry giants such as ZoomInfo, Salesloft, and Adobe.
He has trained over 8,000 salespeople across diverse businesses and, during his tenure in Alleyoop, he has personally hired and managed more than 1,500 SDRs.
With over two decades of experience in sales, marketing, and executive recruitment, his strategies have significantly driven Alleyoop’s growth and shaped its corporate culture.
Jeff Bullas
00:00:41 – 00:01:18
Beyond his career accomplishments, Gabe graduated from the Barney School of Business at the University of Hartford and his leadership ethos is rooted in cultivating environments that prioritize both professional development and individual success. Welcome to the show, Gabe. Great to have you here.
Gabe Lullo
00:01:18 – 00:01:23
Jeff, big fan of yours. Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to dig into this and have fun.
Jeff Bullas
00:01:24 – 00:02:09
So you’re in sales obviously you learnt to sell before you taught other people to sell. Right. And most people would actually rather basically. Run away with the circus and actually do sales, a bit like doing a public presentation because it involves things like cold calling, well, still does, I believe. Um, I’ve done all that, and, uh, I know that 2 hours a day cold calling is like basically scraping your eyes with a razor blade. It requires commitment and attitude. So, Gabe, let me ask you this first question. What made you get into sales? Was it desperation or inspiration?
Gabe Lullo
00:02:10 – 00:02:38
Yeah, it’s funny and it’s a great question because I realized I can learn. I actually was good at sales when I was 11. I was doing a fundraiser to save our local aquarium, and we all had to sell t-shirts. And I convinced my uncle to buy like 10 of the very bad, overpriced, low quality t-shirts, 10 of them. And I was blown away and I’m like, oh my God, I didn’t lift anything heavy. I didn’t get my hands dirty. I didn’t hurt anything.
Gabe Lullo
00:02:38 – 00:03:19
Um, and I, all I did was use my words and I made money. Like this is kind of crazy. So that’s when I got this knack for, for sales, and you went to school for business. Um, unfortunately, 9/11 happened in, in, in my area, so I was under pressure of not finding a job, everything was frozen. And so I started a business with my buddy’s dad, and it turned into this agency that had a lot of success. So I kind of, like many, don’t go to school for sales. Um, I went to school for economics, and it’s interesting because, you know, you walk into sales and you’re like, oh wow, maybe this is an idea. And so that’s how I fell into it, um, and then saw success.
Jeff Bullas
00:03:20 – 00:03:35
Yeah, it’s, it’s um it’s a good job and um if you get it right, it can be, in other words, you actually can do very well based upon performance rather than just turning up a job and no matter how good you are, you still get the same pay at the end of the week or the month.
Gabe Lullo
00:03:36 – 00:04:10
Right. Yeah, I have a friend that’s an accountant and, you know, no matter how good or bad he does, he makes the same amount of money every year. And me, I liked, you know, you know, hunting and I like to go ahead and, and going out and going after it, and then, you know, being in control of that paycheck. I mean, I was commissioned only for a long period of time and, you know, I, I’ve seen people crash and burn after two days and then you know, if you get it right and you’re good at it, you know, sky is the limit. So it’s very risky. It’s definitely not for everybody, uh, as we all know, but if you get it right, uh, you could, you could do it well.
Jeff Bullas
00:04:10 – 00:04:49
Yeah. Yeah, my first sales job was as, as, uh, was a side hustle. Yeah, yeah, I was a teacher and I earned really just crap money, um. And I decided to actually earn a bit of extra money, so I went more in two nights doing nighttime sales, selling subliminal suggestion tapes, and stopped smoking tapes. Uh, I made more in 2 nights than I made in 5 days, um, as a teacher. And that for me, I went, wow, I get paid to do something. If I do it well, I get paid. And it’s exactly right, just what you said. It’s like, If I really nail this, the sky’s the limit almost.
Gabe Lullo
00:04:50 – 00:05:20
Yeah. And, and I think it’s, it’s the hunger and the desire, and I call it your why, right? If your why isn’t in check and you’re not passionate and motivated and have that, what we call grit at our company, um, you’re gonna, you know, not do well. And that’s really hard to find, you know, how do you see that on a resume or how do you, you know, see that in a, in a in a LinkedIn page. You really can’t. So you really have to, you know, have that to be successful here because like you said before, whether it’s scratching your eyeballs.
Gabe Lullo
00:05:20 – 00:05:36
Like, you’re gonna hear no a lot more than you hear yes. But if you get it right, like baseball, like it’s like batting average, right? If you, if you do like 1 out of 10 or 3 out of 10, you’re doing amazingly well. Uh, and so you have to, you have to understand that you’re in a negative world, so you have to persevere for sure.
Jeff Bullas
00:05:37 – 00:06:19
Yeah. Let me ask you this question because uh the other part that I’ve I’ve um confronted in sales. It was number one, it was. If I didn’t believe in the product, I had a problem selling it, right, so in other words, you had to have a reason about the product or service, because, Uh, for me, that was really important. So, and I remember thinking of a comment said by Steve Jobs to, you know, Scully, um, who, you know, he tried to hide be head of Apple, and he said, do you wanna still just sell sugar drinks for the rest of your life, or do you want to change the world?
Gabe Lullo
00:06:20 – 00:06:33
I remember that. I knew you’re gonna say the quote before you said it. As soon as you said, remember when he told him this, I said, oh, I bet he’s gonna say that quote. It hit me. I remember watching the movie too, and it was just so powerful to hear that again, you know, on the big screen, but
Gabe Lullo
00:06:34 – 00:06:59
You know, when people ask you what’s the number one tool for a good salesperson, and usually when they ask me, it’s, is it data? Is it an email platform? Is it a dialer? I said, the number one tool for a good salesperson is a number is a product, a good product to have, right? A good offering, a good program to deliver and to offer to their prospects. And I think it’s so true, you know, I’ve seen really good sellers, um, crash and burn there.
Gabe Lullo
00:06:59 – 00:07:23
Careers by going into a startup that just had a really gimmicky, trendy, not effective product. And then I’ve seen people who are just average sellers and crush it and make a multi six-figure income because the product, I wouldn’t say sold itself, but it was so valuable and so there was such a need for it that, uh, their ability was, was enhanced dramatically because the product was so good.
Jeff Bullas
00:07:24 – 00:08:12
Yeah. Well, I think it’s the difference between a product that’s, uh, you need a product that is compelling. In other words, I’ve got to have this, um, and my first major sales career was actually selling personal computers in the PC revolution that started in the mid 80s. That reveals how old I am because I’m, you know, obviously not 37. Um. So the reality was, I really believed in the product and it was exciting for me too, it’s not only the product, it’s also the industry that was important to me. In other words, is an industry that’s changing the world, or is an industry that’s just stale sitting there and it’s like Groundhog Day every week, every month, every year. So, is it important also as a salesperson, I think, you know,
Jeff Bullas
00:08:13 – 00:08:26
If you’re really good at selling, you can sell almost anything, but is it important for a salesperson to go? I’m really passionate about this sort of product, but I’m also passionate about the industry, not just the product or service.
Gabe Lullo
00:08:27 – 00:09:00
Yeah, absolutely. And I think there’s a third component to it, which relates to industry is, is the, the prospect you’re talking to, right? Are you excited to talk to them? You know, and, and it goes to the industry, you know, we, you know, we were the founding STR team for one of the largest data providers in the world, ZoomInfo. And when we started with Zoom info back in the day when they were very, very, very small, you know, it, it’s selling data to sellers, to salespeople, and I got really passionate about it because you’re talking to sellers and your, your prospect in the industry of sales and
Gabe Lullo
00:09:00 – 00:09:25
And it was very exciting. So we had like these sellers selling the sellers. And it was just like, it was this really interesting dynamic. And then when nothing is against it, we have great clients that we offer this product to. But, you know, cybersecurity doesn’t, doesn’t get me super excited. You know what I mean? It’s kind of boring, but there’s a huge need and there’s a lot of great sellers who are super passionate about it. So, you know, what you’re selling and more importantly, I think who you’re selling it to is, is really, really important.
Jeff Bullas
00:09:25 – 00:10:00
Yeah. OK, let’s wind back a little bit. So you’ve done your economics degree at Hartford. So, did you go straight into sales after that, even though you had done a formal degree, and I, and I do know that quite often, if someone’s got a degree, they become more attractive as a potential salesperson. So in other words, they’ve shown that they’ve got the grit to actually do 4 years of, you know, you know, nose to the grindstone, get things done, qualify and get that piece of paper. So what did you do after you finished your degree? Did you go straight into sales?
Gabe Lullo
00:10:01 – 00:10:17
Actually, I went into recruiting, and I think it was so important for me because a lot of people say sales and recruiting are synonymous, right? You, your sales, are recruiting. But for me, it was a little different because I had the opportunity to really be in the people business and find, you know, great.
Gabe Lullo
00:10:17 – 00:10:56
People and, and, and, and looked at it as an opportunity for me to learn a lot. And so that was a great avenue for me to really do what I do today as CEO cause we’re in the people business. Literally, our product is our people are a professional services business. So who comes into our door and what, you know, what the talent looks like for us is really my main job. And I think actually Steve Jobs himself also said, you know, it’s his job to find people that are smarter than himself, right? And then get out of the way. So it’s the recruiting that taught me that and that really what got me into the game of sales. And so that’s where I started my career,
Jeff Bullas
00:10:56 – 00:11:08
right. So that was what, as in interviewing people, were you trying to actually find companies to do, were you selling to the companies that want to recruit people?
Gabe Lullo
00:11:09 – 00:11:37
Yeah, exactly. So I had a split desk and worked in a staffing business, uh, executive recruitment, um, and in sales revenue, so CROs, CMOs, VPs of sales. And so half of my day was recruiting companies, uh, to sell, uh, they obviously sell them our services that we can staff for them and find excellent talent. And the other half of my day was filling those positions. So that was all sales all day. And, uh, and then again, recruiting sellers, so I learned a lot from them and, and what made them tick.
Jeff Bullas
00:11:37 – 00:11:51
Yeah. So you, that’s where you started. So what was the inspiration for, you know, Alley oop in terms of, yeah, so you obviously were working for someone. Yeah, yeah. So and then when
Gabe Lullo
00:11:51 – 00:12:25
we went, yeah, well, when I went to LSU and when we started this, it was, it was interesting because you were mentioning about the SDR world. It’s very unique. What does it mean? What’s the title? Why is it an acronym? So it’s a sales development rep. So about 15 years ago. So, you know, companies started realizing, hey, you know what makes sense. It makes sense to not have our sellers spend 80% of their day prospecting when we’re really judging them and paying them top dollar to do sales and demos and closing deals and negotiating and building relationships, but not sitting all day long setting up their calendar. And so
Jeff Bullas
00:12:25 – 00:12:28
not doing, in other words, not doing legion.
Gabe Lullo
00:12:29 – 00:13:11
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so we saw that there’s all these amazing six-figure sellers spending all day long just doing lead ion. And not that they shouldn’t be doing lead gen, but it shouldn’t be 80% of their day, right? So the SDR role, which many companies prior to that looked at it as like appointment setters, but it’s definitely more advanced than just that, um, was really born. And so we saw this as a way where we can. Offer STR services as an actual professional service and that’s where Alley oop came out of that um idea and again the role itself is only about the same age as we are, have been in business about 16 years. And so that’s what we do and that’s what we specialize in.
Jeff Bullas
00:13:11 – 00:14:04
Right. So. The world of selling and the way and the tools required for selling have changed over the last 25 years, so Um, I grew up in a world where you had a telephone and you rang a landline, and there was no internet. Uh, hang on, it was, well, hang on, just trying to think. Very little, yeah. We, we, we had snail mail, we had fax machines, we had, um, computers that weren’t connected to each other quite often. So the world since, you know, the, basically the rise of the web in the mid-nineties, it’s very different today. So, what are some of the key tools that you deal with, and I know you’ve mentioned LinkedIn as an example is a great way for, um, basically.
Jeff Bullas
00:14:05 – 00:14:27
I suppose getting the right leads rather than just picking up the phone. So what’s the combination and process, I suppose, format that you have today? In other words, you talk about LinkedIn. So you obviously have a process that you teach that you found has worked in this modern age, the digital age.
Gabe Lullo
00:14:28 – 00:15:09
Yeah, well, it has evolved so many times, uh, completely over the years. Right now, um, and just to update this, uh, it’s 2025, and our two words that we’re using to bring things to market are calls and content. And what I mean by that is calls, literally still doing the phone calls. We’re not using landlines and, and real physical phones. We’re using AI parallel dialers to make 30-400 dials at once throughout the day to connect with a lot of people without having to push any buttons other than hit play and then they connect parties together. It’s really advanced. So we’re using software like that to minimize.
Gabe Lullo
00:15:09 – 00:15:44
The, the delays of, of waiting for someone to pick up the phone, but still do it in a hyper personalized, hyper, you know, not spray and pray type uh way, but a very strategic way. So there’s dialers that allow us to do that and, and, and the human to human phone call is still very, very alive today, even though many think that it may not be because we live in this digital world, um, and that’s really what cuts through the noise and actually gets the job done, frankly. The other side though is that LinkedIn is content. You know, we live in this Instagram, TikTok generation where, you know, we have SDRs who have 40, 50, 60,000 followers.
Gabe Lullo
00:15:45 – 00:16:27
On LinkedIn, um, who are creating content and, and being a thought leader even in an entry-level sales job role and, and driving inbound, but also creating social proof. So when that call does come in, they’re like, oh wow, I know you. I’ve seen you before and I’ve checked out your stuff, and, and it’s really, you know, creating that trust. And so we’re seeing both of those things. And the third thing I did not mention, which I did not mention on purpose, is that email is very difficult these days. What we saw 567 years ago where email was the thing, it’s not anymore. It’s much more difficult. And so we don’t, we don’t, we still do it, but we don’t put a lot of effort into our email versus a cold call or a LinkedIn connection.
Jeff Bullas
00:16:28 – 00:17:22
Right. So let’s go to the LinkedIn connection. You talked about content. So one of the areas I discovered was the power of content to create credibility. In other words, educate first, sell second, for example. So, uh, for me, when I started the blog in 2009 about social media, I just created content relentlessly. Um, and also that’s all as posted to social channels when, um, social media actually didn’t have algorithms in the way that just delivers what Facebook wants you to see rather than actually your tribe wants you to see. And we might talk about algorithms too in terms of, um, uh, The good and the bad of algorithms, but LinkedIn, so LinkedIn. You would encourage people to sell strategically. We’re not selling cinnamon buns here, we’re talking about, you know, maybe high-end products. Is that correct, more?
Gabe Lullo
00:17:23 – 00:17:40
Yeah, I mean, there’s a term for it, and I got to be very specific about my articulation. It’s called pitch slapping. So when you’re pitching someone and just with the first, you know, first time you connect with someone, uh, and you send them a DM and say, Hey, here’s 17 reasons why you should buy for me. And by the way, you know,
Gabe Lullo
00:17:41 – 00:18:09
We only connected to this person 30 seconds ago. So that’s the worst thing you could do, and I’m sure anyone on LinkedIn can relate and have gotten those types of messages throughout their days. But creating that trust and creating that credibility is in that what we call social proof is really where it starts. Now, it doesn’t just end there. It’s just not about just all these inbound leads you’re gonna punch you in the face after you create content. Uh, you have to go out and hunt as well. But now you’re hunting with credibility, you’re hunting with value and you’re, and, and have
Gabe Lullo
00:18:09 – 00:18:37
I mean, you know, strategic conversations. So when you do reach out and say, hey, Jeff, nice to connect. You know, I, I, we’ve been connected for a few weeks. I, I, I saw you reposted this and I thought it may make sense to share this with you as well. Take a look, tell me if you like it. And, it has nothing to do with the sales pitch, maybe just some thought leadership or a, or a video or a blog that you may have shared, uh, to your network and you may have wanted to single out that person. That’s an example of what I mean. But you have all this content, so when they do come take a look at you’re like, OK.
Gabe Lullo
00:18:38 – 00:18:46
This person knows what the heck he’s talking about. And, and that’s where I think, uh, content along and coupled with outreach is, is where the magic is.
Jeff Bullas
00:18:47 – 00:19:21
Yeah. Yeah, and, uh, that’s exactly what I discovered was the power of content to actually and HubSpot called inbound marketing. Then it sort of became generally known as content marketing. In other words, you draw the client to you rather than chasing the client. Yeah. So Um, yeah, so that LinkedIn strategy. So do you use any automation on LinkedIn as well, because LinkedIn’s got sort of written some rules that minimize that, but I still believe there’s actually some real good tools out there for on LinkedIn.
Gabe Lullo
00:19:21 – 00:19:44
You gotta be careful for sure, um, you know, there, I know there’s a bunch of data providers that were just kicked out of LinkedIn recently for using, you know, scraping tools and data mining tools. And you gotta be careful so I don’t wanna, you know, push people in, in a way that puts them in trouble. But there are definitely tools out there that will allow you to connect with people in an automated way.
Gabe Lullo
00:19:44 – 00:20:07
Connect with people you can like or or comment, uh, in an automated way. Um, and I think I wouldn’t go and push the envelope farther than that, um, when it comes to just maybe building your network or, or doing like an initial hey nice to connect outreach, so you have some personalization. And then once they feedback or or or respond, then you can go into more of a human, uh, the human approach.
Gabe Lullo
00:20:07 – 00:20:29
Uh, if someone connected with me, they’re automatically gonna get a hey nice to connect if you ever need anything from me, let me know, message 100% of the time, uh, and it’s very generic, but it gives them a sense of, hey, I’m accessible. You can reach out to me if you want to. Let’s have a dialogue, uh, but I’m not gonna pepper them with a bunch of messages that, uh, they’re just gonna not be probably excited to get.
Jeff Bullas
00:20:29 – 00:21:08
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so it’s interesting about automation. I experimented with automation back in the early days. 90s, and it was fax automation, uh, it was, I decided that if I could get Goldmine, which is a database, contact database. Uh, I could get identified, so basically it was basically yellow pages put into a database, and I did a call to action using a loot paper on a fax machine and sent it out overnight with a call to action. Um, I automated with a fax machine on loop, um, using a Yellow Pages, uh, contact list, so.
Gabe Lullo
00:21:09 – 00:21:47
I mean, that’s like Marquetto and part of like email automation, right, but just for a few generations earlier, but I mean, email is a great example, like they, they figured it out. I mean, there, that’s why it’s harder than ever because it’s so commoditized, like literally anyone could sign up for an outreach or sales loft license and emails just start going out. Um, there’s a lot more advanced tools now to make it hyper relevant, hyper personalized, and, and that’s, and that’s, I think, the way to do it. But yeah, there’s automation tools all day that you can pick and choose from that allow you to, at mass, uh, connect with as many people as you like.
Jeff Bullas
00:21:47 – 00:22:13
Yeah. Yeah, because see, the thing, you know, whether you’re in sales or whatever, we’ve still only got, uh, 24 hours in a day and maybe, you know, 10 hours or 8 hours of work time. So, you are still sort of trading time for money, but at the end of the day, if you can scale yourself through automation, then it becomes much more powerful. And if you have like, you know, 20 hot leads, well, and you’re a good salesperson, well, you can make some serious money.
Gabe Lullo
00:22:14 – 00:22:41
Yeah, and intense signals, that’s what I look at like intent, right? So it’s not just about sending out the message, it’s about, um, did they click on it? Did they read it? Did they forward it? Did they respond? How did they respond? Did they go to your website? Like, there’s a lot of things that you can see people doing all across your messaging that you’re sending out, that would all tie in together. And that’s why we call it an omnichannel approach. A lot of people are like, I’m just gonna do email, or I’m just gonna do cold calling or I’m just gonna do content.
Gabe Lullo
00:22:41 – 00:22:58
It’s, you’re building a, you’re, you’re, you know, you’re baking a cake and eating all the ingredients for the cake and you got to do all of them. And yes, there may be one or two channels that are definitely more valuable, but if it’s all synergistically working together, that’s where the magic starts to happen. Yeah.
Jeff Bullas
00:22:59 – 00:23:35
Exactly, so yeah, Omnichannel, so, you know. Trying to reach people on the web, you can, you can do, you get them to subscribe to your email list. You basically post to TikTok or Instagram or reels and do reels. You do different media. Some people have different modalities in terms of what media they like. Some like to watch, some like to listen, and some like to read. So you got all these modalities. So let’s wind back to, um, the start of Alley oop. So, did you go straight from recruitment? To alley oop and you said you and or was it I did, yeah, yeah, so yeah,
Gabe Lullo
00:23:35 – 00:23:37
yeah, we’re right into the business,
Jeff Bullas
00:23:37 – 00:24:01
yep, OK, so when you’re doing that, was there like an aha moment you said there’s a real problem here, people aren’t trained well enough, uh. Whatever, so did you see a problem that needed solving, which is quite often the start of a successful company and went and solved it successfully. Is that what happened, or how did Alley Oop, where was the inspiration for it?
Gabe Lullo
00:24:02 – 00:24:42
Yeah, so we were actually working in more of a sales, full cycle sales training company. So we started as a training company, and we were training sellers on how to sell. And it was interesting because every time we had a new client who asked for our training, the biggest gap and the biggest problem they have, um, wasn’t just training or their skill set, it was having enough leads for them to execute on. So that was the biggest gap that we saw was we’re training them how to be amazing sellers and closures and, and generating revenue and building relationships. But all they kept saying is, I need to just, I need to get off this call so I can go fill my calendar. I don’t have enough at bats.
Gabe Lullo
00:24:42 – 00:25:23
So when we looked at it, we’re like, OK, we need more appointments so they can go out and do the things we’re teaching them to do so they could be, you know, generating revenue. And that’s where it was born. Now, there was a secondary step to it. So once we made the decision to fill that gap, then we realized, oh my God, there’s no one in the marketplace that knows how to do this. Right, like, so we had to recruit new people and then train them how to be really good at exclusively prospecting and we built an academy uh within the company to essentially do that. So we filled a training need for those people. Now though, it’s evolved where there’s a million SDRs on LinkedIn, literally.
Gabe Lullo
00:25:23 – 00:25:44
If you Google on LinkedIn or search on LinkedIn, BDR SDR, there’s over a million profiles. So now we’re actually sourcing people who have done the role, but have they done it well enough to deserve a spot here and can we attract them into the company. So it’s a, it’s, it’s definitely a metamorphosized, but that’s how it all started.
Jeff Bullas
00:25:44 – 00:25:56
Right. OK, so essentially you started with one. Particular focus and you realized that there was a gap. And that wasn’t being filled by the market.
Gabe Lullo
00:25:58 – 00:25:59
That’s right, that’s exactly right.
Jeff Bullas
00:26:00 – 00:26:07
Yeah, so in other words, you said, OK, we really need to be good, help people get leads because that guarantees that your salespeople have someone to talk to.
Gabe Lullo
00:26:08 – 00:26:31
Exactly. So now they had a consistent flow of leads. Their calendars were full, and we said, hey, listen, not only do we provide training, but imagine if your sellers after they were trained, opened up their calendar and their entire calendar was booked with highly qualified meetings already scheduled for them. Would that be exciting? No one said no. So it was, so yeah, that’s how we started it.
Jeff Bullas
00:26:32 – 00:26:41
Yeah, that’s, um, yeah, because it’s nothing worse turning up on a Monday morning as a salesperson, you’re going, oh God, I don’t have anyone to talk to today.
Gabe Lullo
00:26:41 – 00:26:43
Right, exactly.
Jeff Bullas
00:26:43 – 00:27:19
I’ve got no appointments booked, so, uh, and also it’s, it is seen by management, um, the CEOs and CMOs and everything starting with C, um, so, The other part is, let’s talk a little bit about AI and its role within the process, I suppose, of what you’re doing today. So, And AI is basically poking its finger into every nook and cranny of life and business, isn’t it, now, so. Yeah. Where does AI play in your ecosystem?
Gabe Lullo
00:27:20 – 00:27:47
Sure, so yes, AI is absolutely, uh, of course, taking over. Um, we have a lot of clients of ours that are actually AI companies that we’re booking meetings for, uh, in all different aspects, but in our space, it’s really about research and training and messaging. So, a couple of things. We have an AI tool that actually scores all of our conversations. So when our sellers have communication and have these live conversations.
Gabe Lullo
00:27:47 – 00:28:31
We have AI listening to those conversations and scoring good calls and bad calls, and why, right? And providing real-time feedback through the AI engine so they can get better on the next one. So that’s really an amazing tool. Secondly, we have great messaging when we’re writing playbooks and email cadences and email sequences and messages. We use AI to really make sure that it’s hitting home and we’re using the best message available. And I would say the third one. It really is about research. You know, going into a call fully prepared, you know, we see sellers all the time. The biggest gap is they’re living in the Zoom world these days and they’re going from meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting, and they have all these great appointments, but they don’t do the due diligence.
Gabe Lullo
00:28:31 – 00:28:45
Or they don’t have the time to do the due diligence to go into those conversations with a lot of information and we use AI as ways to truly understand who am I going to talk to and why they would be interested in my product or offering.
Jeff Bullas
00:28:46 – 00:29:08
Right. Yeah, and, uh, we are also seeing the rise of, uh, you know, avatars in a, in a variety of formats. Um, I just created a digital twin version of myself that I just, you know, feed in some text after I’ve trained it, and then it, it’s me talking. And I’ve got a deeper voice and I have a slight English accent, which is actually quite cool. Right?
Gabe Lullo
00:29:09 – 00:29:32
Yeah, that is awesome. Yeah, I mean, again, and there’s agents you can build, but what we’re using right now is like, when we have new sellers, um, who come in, they don’t have the historical knowledge of other clients or campaigns we’ve worked with before. Um, and it’s very hard. We have all the data, but it’s very hard for us to give them access to that because again, a lot of historical knowledge.
Gabe Lullo
00:29:32 – 00:29:54
So we’re building agents right now that our sellers can ask that’s just exclusive to us. Hey, have you ever worked with a company like this before? And what was the result and how did it go? And all these things, and AI can tell them what they need to hear so they can go on to that call and speak as if they’ve been working here for 10 years, but maybe they’ve only been working here for 2 years. So those are really cool things we’re looking into.
Jeff Bullas
00:29:55 – 00:30:47
Yeah. So there’s, um, the other question I have, um, regarding AI and also I, you know, your IP, you, you actually are developing and training, I’m sure, chatbots that have your IP embedded in them and frameworks that you don’t necessarily want to give away and put it on the open chatbot, you know, ecosystem. So do you, so do you, have you got applications that sit within, I suppose we call it a digital walled garden of, um, on your server that you can use that is not sucked up by the content stealing platforms and monsters such as, uh, Microsoft and Chacha BT and Grok and Genesis. So, do you have a walled garden for your IP for how you train your AI bots?
Gabe Lullo
00:30:47 – 00:31:05
We do, yeah, our IT team does that. And we are working with some companies that sell it that exact way. Now, of course, you know, we hope and pray that what they’re saying is true and accurate, but there are tools that they are saying, you know what, this doesn’t touch anything, it’s yours and only yours, um, that we are working with right now. Yeah.
Jeff Bullas
00:31:06 – 00:31:52
It’s very interesting, the whole copyright issue and um. Because what, you know, if we go back to the well, you know, we’ve seen the rise of algorithms, especially, you know. Within social media, um, I grew up, you know, well, I started the blog and the content creating and the writing. And the marketing within a framework where the algorithms allowed you to connect with your tribes, so the algorithms now are basically about, maximizing the revenue of any of the platforms, whether that’s Facebook, Tick tock. OK, so. Essentially, you know, they have tools that scrape the web, and now we have the big AI platform scraping the web.
Jeff Bullas
00:31:53 – 00:32:32
And they don’t believe there is any right to and you can even put a tag in your content or your website saying, this is supposed to stop them scraping it. Guess what? It doesn’t. Right. So, anyway, I don’t get too technical because I’m not that technical either, but we’re in the middle of any content is fair game now on the web and the AI’s just taken it to a whole new level. And basically, you put in a search today. Google will produce an AI review. With no attribution. In other words, the people who created the content don’t get any benefit. Yeah,
Gabe Lullo
00:32:33 – 00:33:14
and I think that’s why sales people are more important now than ever before, not the opposite, because data is commoditized, right? Like we talked about data scraping with LinkedIn, you know, two mammoth data companies were just kicked off of LinkedIn for data scraping, right? Um, and in addition to that, you know, with AI, everyone has access to the same messages. And so, and, and now content is now in the same way like you mentioned. So, you know, having this human to human dialogue like you and I are having right now about a product offering or service, I think is more important now than ever before because everyone else sounds like everyone else. And I always say in sales, you know, we talk about
Gabe Lullo
00:33:14 – 00:33:33
Training salespeople. I said, the best salespeople don’t sound like salespeople. So the better you are at not sounding like a salesperson, the more effective you are at selling. And I think that’s more so of the same when it comes to all this, you know, commod, you know, commodity really of, of data and content. Yeah.
Jeff Bullas
00:33:34 – 00:34:02
And we’re seeing the whole web being homogenized and commoditized. Right. And there’s even discussion, which is a bit off topic, but you know, of even countries creating what they call a sovereign AI that actually protects the culture. Of the country, the tribes, indigenous, um, you know, colloquialism, so we don’t get sucked up into all looking like just all, we all look like Americans. I don’t know if that’s a good idea.
Gabe Lullo
00:34:02 – 00:34:29
I agree. You gotta be, no, I, I, as one, I will, I will admit to that. I’m well cultured. And so, uh, you, you need to, you need to not be, yeah. Like you said, avatars across the board, it’s just too manufactured. You got, you have to have individualism and, and, and nuances and yeah, you know, human, human to human. So I’m a big fan of AI helping humans, not replacing humans, and that’s just our position on it for sure. Yeah.
Jeff Bullas
00:34:30 – 00:34:55
Yeah, it’s, uh, what’s interesting for me watching what’s happening, and I’ve lived through multiple technology revolutions. Um, starting with the PC revolution, the web revolution and the internet revolution, and then. Uh, e-commerce through to social media, and now it’s AI. Um, let’s, let’s have a little look at, let’s talk about your frameworks that you, if you’re training a salesperson,
Gabe Lullo
00:34:55 – 00:34:56
OK.
Jeff Bullas
00:34:56 – 00:35:07
Um, what’s, just give us a sort of thumbnail sketch of what’s really important for you in your training, because obviously you would have a process and a framework that you apply in your training.
Gabe Lullo
00:35:08 – 00:35:33
Yeah. I think the biggest thing is objection handling, right? So I look at it like a numbers game. If you’re the worst salesperson in the world and you call 100 people, right? You’re gonna get some people that say, yes. You could be the worst in the world, but some people are, you’re gonna call and they’re gonna be like, Yep, I’ve been looking for you all day. This is perfect that you called. Timing is excellent, and you’re gonna get some people just because those are the numbers.
Gabe Lullo
00:35:33 – 00:36:15
And then you can be the best salesperson in the world, and you can literally call 100 people and you’re still gonna get nos. People are going to say no to you, no matter how good you are, no matter how great your product is, you’re gonna get nos. So what does that mean? Well, 10% are gonna be no, 10% are gonna be yes, 80% are gonna be what I call those. Green apples, right? They need some questions answered. They need some understanding of what’s happening. And so the better you are at handling those objections, that’s what’s going to separate excellence versus average salespeople. So understanding why they’re saying it, understanding why they’re asking it, and then having a very good time.
Gabe Lullo
00:36:15 – 00:36:36
Response to it, um, is what’s going to separate uh someone who’s good versus bad. So we, I break it down where there’s only a handful of things you’ll ever hear, um, no matter what you’re offering. And so if you can know your objections and know your rebuttals really, really, really, really well, um, you’re gonna, you’re gonna start, uh, seeing some increase in numbers.
Jeff Bullas
00:36:36 – 00:36:48
Yeah, and do you have tools that help people come up on the screen as they’re having that conversation that helped them, or is that basically just rote learning, remembering?
Gabe Lullo
00:36:49 – 00:37:20
No, we actually do. We have a really cool tool. It’s AI driven, and it’s a battle card, essentially, so it’s listening to the call. And so someone says, yeah, how much is it or what, what is, what’s the pricing on this, or I can’t afford it. It picks it up and then it gives you different battles. bullet points of how to handle pricing or budget as an objection, and then it gives them those, uh, prompts to, to get on the right track. So, we definitely have tools like that, and we have 10 different objections, categories that we break them down into.
Jeff Bullas
00:37:20 – 00:37:29
Right. So it’s almost like having your own. I suppose, oracle it on your shoulder which is guiding you as you speak.
Gabe Lullo
00:37:29 – 00:37:52
Yeah, exactly. And that’s how we want to look at it, like, how do we get someone to sound like an expert in month 2 and not year two. And so if they can see what someone who’s been here for 2 years would say, right in front of them, that’s exactly how we would want it to work. And, and we’re, we’re building it, it’s happening, it’s working, um, but, and it’s always getting better and it’s exciting.
Jeff Bullas
00:37:52 – 00:37:59
Yeah. Yeah, so really you’re looking at AI and technology not to replace but to assist.
Gabe Lullo
00:38:00 – 00:38:02
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Jeff Bullas
00:38:03 – 00:38:12
You can never say never. Do you think that you might end up with interactive AI avatars that will be almost impossible to detect?
Gabe Lullo
00:38:13 – 00:38:38
Yeah, I do. I mean, I think one day you and I will be sitting out on the beach and, and our avatars will do this podcast, right? I think that it’s actually going to come and I think it’s going to be there one day. Do I see it there right now or tomorrow? No. But is it going to be there in the future? I, I, like I said, I, I can’t. Uh, predicted, but I, I don’t see how it can’t be based on how, uh, we’ve seen it, uh, evolve just in recent times.
Jeff Bullas
00:38:39 – 00:38:44
Yeah. I have a certain an idea, and I’m sure it’s not mine, just mine, but, um,
Gabe Lullo
00:38:45 – 00:38:46
yeah, what is it gonna be?
Jeff Bullas
00:38:46 – 00:39:32
Yeah, well, so I’m, I’m thinking, what does the future look like? And uh and uh because the machine’s asking humans big questions. And one of them is, I think we’re going to have a digital twin that’ll be interactive, that will do all the hard work while you’re actually having a tequila on the beach and talking to people like having a conversation. In other words, hopefully, the machine does the stuff we really don’t want to do. While the real human does the stuff they really want to do is a value that actually is about having conversations. It’s about catching up with friends. It’s about making a difference in the world through community, right? So this, this is, I don’t know, it’s, but looking at what it’s, where it’s going, interactive AIs that you can ask a question and they’re trained on your own content.
Jeff Bullas
00:39:32 – 00:40:12
And we’ve got thousands of articles on the site, so which could be our walled garden, but I, I really think that could happen. The digital interactive twin goes out and rules, you know, does the work, makes the money. And it does it 24/7. It doesn’t knock off, it doesn’t take holidays, it never gets sick, uh, as long as electricity’s there to keep the server running. Um, and then you can go and do things that matter as a human, uh, which is spend time with your children, grandchildren, and so on. So anyway, it. I’ve been just blown away by the pace of change in, well, we’re 2.5 years into this AI revolution as a, yeah, I mean,
Gabe Lullo
00:40:12 – 00:40:26
it’s closer to what you just said than we’ve ever been before, and I, you know, I would love to do a podcast in a year from now with you again and, and see where we’re at, because that’s how fast it’s moving. Um, and, and I do, I do appreciate that and I, and I think you’re right on the money.
Jeff Bullas
00:40:27 – 00:40:35
Yeah. So I think we’re gonna live in parallel universes. It’s gonna be the digital version of you and then it’s gonna be the real version of you. Um, and you have better
Gabe Lullo
00:40:35 – 00:40:40
beaches, so it’s OK. I’m gonna come from New York to, to your, your neck of the woods and hang out,
Jeff Bullas
00:40:40 – 00:41:22
mate, and we got beaches here. We, uh, we’ve got, I, I live just 800 m away, uh, let’s put that in, um. Uh, 500 yards, half a mile. OK, I’m just, I’m gonna talk American here. It’s about half a mile, um, 800 m in Oz, uh, metric. Um, yeah, we just, I walked down to the beach, Bronnie Beach, which is next to Bondi, which is the iconic, but I go for a dip there every day, and pretty well every day during summer, and even during winter. But, um, yeah, we’ve got beaches, mate. I can tell you right now, it’s, um, They’re kick ass, let me put it that way, and I
Gabe Lullo
00:41:22 – 00:41:26
know. That’s awesome. That’s awesome.
Jeff Bullas
00:41:26 – 00:41:53
OK, so just a couple of other things that I’m intrigued by, um. You also provide services almost like fractional sales people that go in and do the selling in a company basically like outsourcing selling. Yeah. Tell us about that and um uh. And what’s this, how do you engage with a new customer to do that? I’m intrigued by both those questions.
Gabe Lullo
00:41:53 – 00:42:34
Yeah, so, you know, what’s interesting is, it’s not forever, right? So as an agency, we come in and say, listen, it’s a startup company usually, they have some pretty smart people who created a new product, a new tool. Uh, they’re not sellers themselves usually. And to them, they have to make this decision. Does it make sense to hire this expensive vice president of Sales, and then have them go out and tell them, hey, I want to build a team next, and do it themselves? Or does it make sense to outsource that for a period of time, and get it proven, understand the ICP, understand the features, get customer uh, your prospect feedback, and, and drive it with a team that knows how to do this.
Gabe Lullo
00:42:34 – 00:42:55
And then eventually what they can do is actually buy out our campaign and, and bring it in-house. And so that’s how we do and we’ve done it countless times with some of the biggest brands out there. And, you know, it’s a really cool function that we can provide, you know, founder-led companies, founder-led sales companies and startups, uh, this offering.
Jeff Bullas
00:42:55 – 00:43:08
Yes, because founders typically aren’t salespeople. Today they’re actually like programmers that live in small, that live in small dark rooms and, and, and sit in a gaming chair, don’t they? Um,
Gabe Lullo
00:43:08 – 00:43:40
I mean, I think you just profile a lot of our founders that we work with. And so yes, it is exactly that, and that’s really what this is designed for. I mean if you think about it, right, if you’re a startup and you’re in that type of, you know, personality type, you know, you’re not, you’re not gonna. You’re gonna hire a fractional CFO to do your books. You’re gonna hire a fractional, you know, HR firm to do your recruiting, and you’re probably gonna hire a fractional marketing agency to build your website. So you can hire a fractional sales team to generate leads and, and, and create revenue. So that’s how we do it.
Jeff Bullas
00:43:40 – 00:43:54
Yeah. Very cool. Look, I left direct sales a long time ago. I know I’d feel like a dinosaur if I came back into the sales team. Not that I want to get back into sales, but we’re always selling. Um, well, they don’t
Gabe Lullo
00:43:54 – 00:43:58
do faxing anymore, so that, that may be something you can’t bring to the table.
Jeff Bullas
00:43:59 – 00:44:06
Like I, you know what, it. It really worked well. I’d turn up in the morning. No,
Gabe Lullo
00:44:06 – 00:44:08
definitely, yeah, 100%.
Jeff Bullas
00:44:09 – 00:44:35
So here I was in an office with 4 or 5 other salespeople, and I had my fax machine next to me. I think I’d brought it in myself. I had the loop and I made the call and I did the loop, so I actually had it taped. It would do the loop. And I’d come back to 1015, 20 leads, return faxes, it was awesome. Um, so, um, yeah, technology has changed.
Gabe Lullo
00:44:35 – 00:44:57
I mean we did direct mail, right, where they had to fill out a survey and a card. They checked the box, put in their names, sent it back in, free postage, right? And then those would be our leads. So we’re, we’re calling the leads of people who filled out, you know, mailers. I mean, that, that, that was me when I first started. So I, I’m, I’m, I’m old too when it comes to like, you know, where it started and where it is today, if you will.
Jeff Bullas
00:44:59 – 00:45:06
Yeah, and, uh, what does the future look like? It’s both, it’s both scary and also exciting all at the same time and uh.
Gabe Lullo
00:45:07 – 00:45:46
I think it’s exciting. I mean, a lot of people are, you know, of course, afraid, you know, people fear what they don’t understand. So there’s a lot of, uh, nervousness, there’s a lot of apprehension. Um, you know, I’ve seen teams fire their entire sellers, put it in an AI bot, and then it crashed and burned and then was literally out of business. I’ve seen it work as well. So it’s like, you got to be careful. Well, my recommendation is always the AB test, right? AB test it, let the data make the decision for you and, and, and test it out. But yeah, it’s, it’s exciting. And if you embrace what’s happening right now, and, uh, get excited about it, I think, uh, you know, you could have a home run for sure.
Jeff Bullas
00:45:46 – 00:46:27
Yeah, I, for me, I’m, I’m a curious sort of guy. So I love reading and I read a lot of books. Yeah, and I’m actually scaling my reading by using chat GBT to basically review a book in 1000 pages, give me the points, and also the actionable takeaways. And if I want to know a little bit more about, you know, philosophy or I want to do more about science, I, I feel like I’ve got a polymath sitting next to me that helps me, you know, become more intelligent, and also because I’ve got shit memory, um, and I’m getting a bit older, so you’re going, OK, right. What was the name of that person I’d just met, you know, last week? Um, so I would really like it.
Jeff Bullas
00:46:28 – 00:46:38
An implant just on memory would be enough almost to start with, but, but I’m not, I’m not letting Musk go in there. Sorry, it’s not gonna happen. Um,
Gabe Lullo
00:46:39 – 00:46:55
So back when I was in school, the Cliff Notes version was the thing to buy, right? That was the summary version of every, all the books you had to read. So it’s very much, uh, you know, we’re, we’re definitely smarter for it and we have access to information more than we’ve ever had, and I think it’s awesome.
Jeff Bullas
00:46:55 – 00:47:03
Yeah. We live in very exciting times, it’s uh I think this is the biggest evolutionary change to humans in history.
Gabe Lullo
00:47:05 – 00:47:20
I have a question for you. Um, what are your thoughts with all of this in mind on the typical go to school, education, college, university path that, uh, I think is being challenged here in a big way.
Jeff Bullas
00:47:21 – 00:48:13
I think there’s a good side and there’s a bad side. I think that online learning and AI. Could actually be a lot better teacher than the average blojo professor. Yeah. But the flip side is one thing that machines can’t do, and what they’re trying to do is actually real face to face communication and community. And um look, the AI avatars will try and replicate that, but I think they could actually provide really good therapy, but I think also on the training side. And I also think um. That what we’re watching in America, for example, the attack on universities and education is essentially attacking the old elite that see education in um that is basically rose out of the industrial era.
Jeff Bullas
00:48:14 – 00:48:27
So I think it’s a good thing in one sense, but in the other sense, what will we lose if we don’t have a community of students that share ideas in an open forum like they had in Rome? That’s the flip side. Yeah,
Gabe Lullo
00:48:28 – 00:48:29
Well, I’m with you on that too.
Jeff Bullas
00:48:30 – 00:48:46
So, I’m gonna ask you one more question, Gab, and I ask all my. So if you had all the money in the world and you woke up in the morning, what would you do every day that would excite you and fascinate you and bring you deep joy?
Gabe Lullo
00:48:47 – 00:48:54
Oh wow, um, well, I, I really like F1, uh, Formula One, so I probably go to Oscar
Jeff Bullas
00:48:54 – 00:48:56
Oscar
Gabe Lullo
00:48:56 – 00:48:56
one
Jeff Bullas
00:48:56 – 00:48:57
last weekend.
Gabe Lullo
00:48:57 – 00:49:03
Oscar one. Yes, he did. I was so excited to see him. That’s awesome, but Claren is on the track, man. He beat
Jeff Bullas
00:49:03 – 00:49:08
Verstappen. That’s what I actually just want him to do. Yeah, exactly. So I,
Gabe Lullo
00:49:08 – 00:49:31
I would probably, and my, my whole family is the same way my whole family, my wife and daughter. So I would say we would go to like every F1 race for a year and just hang out and watch and just be like an F1 roadie for a year would be super fun. Um, you know, my mom, uh, is, you know, runs a soup kitchen in our local town and, and feeds, you know, 160 people, homeless people a day. So I would, I would absolutely want to support that.
Gabe Lullo
00:49:31 – 00:49:58
Um, you know, traveling to Australia, I’ve never been in your backyard, and so I, I’ve definitely traveled a lot more. And, you know, I, I really, you know, these sellers that have come through my company, many of them have gone out and what we call out alumni. They’ve gone out and started businesses, they’ve gone become VPs, CEOs. So I really would like to start a fund for people that are in the sales business that want to start their own business, and I would think that would be exciting.
Jeff Bullas
00:49:58 – 00:50:13
Yeah. It sounds like I’m enjoying. Friends and family and community around you. So at the end of the day. The true happiness arises out of shared experiences and people that you love, um, and talking to, what it sounds like.
Gabe Lullo
00:50:13 – 00:50:19
Let’s get, let’s get the Jeff twin and the twin so we can get those things done. Yeah,
Jeff Bullas
00:50:19 – 00:50:24
we could just run, we could run 5 podcasts a day until we’ve run out of.
Gabe Lullo
00:50:24 – 00:50:30
Yep. Content, content, all the leads come to us. I’ll have our sellers call and, uh, get those appointments booked.
Jeff Bullas
00:50:33 – 00:50:48
OK, mate. It’s been an absolute pleasure. And, um, like, we’ve taken a few twists and turns, but we’ve kept pretty well on track, and that’s good because I get easily distracted. Um, I walk, I go from one room to the next and forget what I actually went there for sometimes, but that’s OK.
Gabe Lullo
00:50:49 – 00:51:00
It’s been great too. Thank you so much for having me, Jeff. Uh, I appreciate it, I hope your audience has some value and I’m a big fan of yours, as I mentioned. So thank you for all that you do for the community and the content you create.
Jeff Bullas
00:51:00 – 00:51:19
Great. Thanks, Gabe. It’s been absolute joy, mate. And this is, you know, having what I call deep, good conversations brings me a lot of joy and, um, I prefer a one on one rather than a one to many, essentially, so, um, yeah. And having conversations about things that matter is also very important.
Gabe Lullo
00:51:20 – 00:51:22
Agreed. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Jeff Bullas
00:51:22 – 00:51:22
Agreed. Thank you, sir. Thank you.