The Power of Intentional Living – Why You Should Design Your Life (Episode 109)

Jeff Bullas

00:00:07 - 00:01:50

Hi everyone and welcome to the Jeff Bullas show. Today I have with me, Finnian Kelly. Now he's a slightly weird guy like me, he's Australian, so if our accent sounds slightly the same it is true because they are but Finn is actually based in Aspen, Colorado in the USA and a little bit about Finn before we lean into the conversation, as a sought-after speaker, event facilitator and executive coach. Finnian has been dubbed “the Business Mystic”, what's that? we're going to find out later, because of his unique ability to put consciousness in the business and inspire leaders to find new levels of meaning and purpose through their creative endeavors.

This approach flowed through his term as President of the Colorado Chapter of Entrepreneurs Organization, the largest and most influential community of entrepreneurs in the world. Finnian helps people love their path so they can feel content with a life lived in the now and that's something I totally identify with. As an entrepreneur, Finnian built and exited two multi-million dollar companies in the financial industry. He’s the Creator and Chief Visionary Officer of Intentionality.com and we're going to talk more about Intention later. Through the four parts Intentionally framework, Finnian guides people to be perfectly aligned in their beliefs, thoughts and behaviors so they can feel more love in their life

As a lifelong learner, Finnian has degrees in, wait for this, mass physics, finance leadership teaching and a Master's degree of Science in Positive Psychology, I certainly feel like an underachiever just after reading that, Finnian. So he spent 7 years in the Australian Defense Force and graduated from one of the most prestigious leadership organizations in the world, The Royal Military College of Duntroon.

Finnian, great to have you on the show.

Finnian Kelly

00:01:50 - 00:02:06

Thanks so much, Jeff. And there's a principle of intentionality which has escaped the prison of comparison by folks in your path and what stuff you can do. So don't compare to me because otherwise then I have to go back and compare to you and there's lots of things which I definitely would be feeling inadequate about as well.

Jeff Bullas

00:02:06 - 00:02:08

Well, I don't feel inadequate. I've just taken the piece really.

Finnian Kelly

00:02:08 - 00:02:15

Yeah, that's the Australian. I try to do this with Americans and podcasts and I can't. So it's good.

Jeff Bullas

00:02:16 - 00:02:41

No, you can't mate. This is what I like to say. Okay, so we're going to take the piece of fair bit during this conversation and we're not even going to try and explain that to an American or to the world. But you need to come to Australia to understand what’s this, in other words, we don't take ourselves too seriously is essentially what we're talking about. Yeah. So Finnian, you went into the Australian army or defense force?

Finnian Kelly

00:02:42 - 00:02:45

Army, part of the defense force.

Jeff Bullas

00:02:46 - 00:02:53

I've never thought of joining the army because I was afraid of getting killed. So what made you do that?

Finnian Kelly

00:02:53 - 00:05:52

Well, I would love to say it was some form of being a patriotic person, but ego was actually the driving force of it. I came from a upbringing where if you got good grades, the pinnacle was to be a doctor and my mom was a doctor and my grandparents were doctors, uncle, my friends, parents were all doctors and my friends wanted to be doctors as well and we're all, we're all very close, did life together and we all got selected into medicine and I was just like, there must be something more because I never really, I actually saw the medical industry as a lot of suffering to my life. Like they were obsessed with themselves. My mom's patients definitely got more attention a lot of the time than myself. So I didn't really connect with it, but the programming was so strong being the doctors, the pinnacle and I had to find someone. I knew internally that that program wasn't right for me, but it was still operating within me. So an army helicopter pilot came to our school and shared their journey and everyone was like, wow, that's really cool. And I was suddenly like, oh wow, this could be maybe comparative, maybe the story I could tell. If I became an army helicopter pilot would be enough to outdo why you didn't do medicine. So I got selected in both, nearly did medicine and the last minute I went, no, I'm off to the military and it really was just a way to escape out of this pathway, was about how to get out of Tasmania, how to be independent and create a new life on my own.

Now fast forward a bunch of years. You do four years of military training and still not guaranteed to be a helicopter pilot, like tens of thousands of people apply. We went through crazy training, like it's amazing what we actually did. Like it was so physically challenging, mentally challenging, a lot of time emotionally challenging and then eventually get selected, selected as a helicopter pilot training, Get into pilots course and I just felt out of place. There were people there who had been wanting to do that since they were two years old that was so passionate about it. They would be like getting off a plane and they're just going, wow, how amazing was that? Like that was the best and I was like a little bit hot, I just want to go down and chill in the pool or something and it was interesting and people were getting cut each day. So it was a very competitive environment and I really felt guilty, I felt like how am I taking this place for someone else and it was the first time I really saw the ability, the value of being passionate in something and just because something looks good on paper or you can tell the story about it doesn't mean it's going to fulfill you at all and that's where I felt the most lonely and I ended up changing my path out of that and which made me to get out of the military earlier, which was a very interesting journey. So it was my first path of making a decision going this doesn't matter how good this looks, it's not going to fulfill me and I had to choose a path which was going to fulfill me.

Jeff Bullas

00:05:53 - 00:06:18

So how did you do that pivot? Because you've been in this bubble for seven years, and that must be and there would be a lot of authoritarianism within their like and sucking up to generals and so on. So how do you cope with that? Like just that authoritarianism, bureaucracy because it is like bureaucracy on steroids really, isn't it?

Finnian Kelly

00:06:18 - 00:08:51

It is, it's an amazing organization, I think back about it now about the psychology that goes into the military. They get young people to come sign up, do the hardest training, then be excited about the prospect of going to war where they have the chance of killing or being killed by someone for not that much money, but they make you feel so special and then they have this dynamic of telling you not good enough to go out in the real world, but you're better than everyone else. It's this weird push pull mentality and so it was very challenging and I loved leading like I loved having the soldiers underneath me, but if you got one bad

officer above you. So I was an officer as well. But you still have officers above you, that one person who doesn't like you, your life is not worth living and that was definitely the case. So I always felt very challenged in that regard. So making the pivot was very, very hard and there was a psychology around as well. Like you're in this bubble and everyone's telling you like you're letting everyone down by leaving or you're giving up all these stories about how you see how other people are treated. So to actually leave the organization takes a lot of courage And I did it by first learning about money to tell you the truth. I started trading

my own money on currency and equities and started seeing that I could actually make money and I didn't have to be dependent on something else because there's always a fear of would you get a job outside which in hindsight you just go of course you would like it's you're a talented person but the military as a way to make you think you always need another qualification before you you do something. Hence why I've got so many qualifications so that you asked why I have that because that's what they would tell you. So I first learned a bit about financial independence and learning, giving them the confidence and then I exited out and actually had no plans. I wanted a period of time where I travel and see the world and it was very confronting making that shift because for so long you've been worrying what other people are thinking about you. Like even the idea of walking down the street, you're always worried, is there an officer looking at you and are you wearing the right clothes? So there was a big year and sometimes it still comes up like there was a long transition period to adjust into civilian life into, into normal day life and then it was just lucky that I had space to explore and then my entrepreneurial endeavors started coming from that because I think I realized I never, never wanted bosses again. I wanted to be free.

Jeff Bullas

00:08:51 - 00:08:59

So you were doing almost like you were trading in currency markets as a side hustle when you're actually in the army?

Finnian Kelly

00:08:59 - 00:10:24

Yeah, yeah. I was, I was just doing it and sometimes I'd be in my office with a computer screen, I would be trading because we actually had a lot of spare time in the military and that's where I have the confidence that really and I truly believe that about degrees and money. It was all about just options for me. It's like how do you increase your options? And then when something occurred like an opportunity came you already had it and that was a great example of my first business. It was a private wealth management company. I already had the qualification before I even knew that that was a pathway that I wanted to go down? So when I actually had that opportunity, I was able to capitalize on it super quick because I had the degree.

So that was part of my thought process was how do I get the most broad qualifications, experiences? So then when anything happens, I was there. Now there's some downsides on that as well, because when you have too many options, you can get paralyzed by making decisions. You can also jump around a little bit too much. It's one of my, I think it's a burden of actually being like good, I'm not saying amazing, but being good at a lot of things is that you can, if something comes up and you're like, I'll go into that place and now I've learned the power of just staying in your lane and just picking a few things and being really, really great at them and saying no to the other things that's actually a real asset as well.

Jeff Bullas

00:10:25 - 00:10:59

Yeah, that is a real challenge. Like if you've got too many options, then you're going, what do I do? And then you keep, like you said, you keep bouncing around and you don't really focus on any one thing and success is quite often comes from focus, in fact, I think comes from focus and if you've got a team underneath you, you can distract them all the time by changing ideas or having too many ideas. So you went and started doing trading, started a finance business. So what did that look like? And how long did that last?

Finnian Kelly

00:11:00 - 00:14:00

So what was really interesting was that it lasted a long time. We actually had a vision from day one. I actually met my wife at the time. We met, fell in love and we wanted to go travel. But then this business opportunity came up and we were both very aligned and we went, let's do it, and we said, well let's build a company, sell it in five years and then go be independent and travel the world. And it was interesting, we actually did do that exactly. But the problem is over that journey, we started other businesses as well, which ended up hijacking some of our freedom which we wanted. But it looked like basically we started looking at how people were living their lives. And this is where the Intentionality piece came in very early, I was 24 years old and I saw that money was used as an excuse so often why people couldn't live their life they wanted. It was always like, oh we don't have enough money or if only I had had the ability to do this. And it was interesting, I would look at people who are in the exact same situation as me earning the same money and for some reason, I was always able to make it happen and others couldn't and I realized it was just their relationship with money, it wasn't actually about did they have more or less? It was just that they had preconceived ideas about it and it limited them a lot of the times and I saw it happen in my family personally as well. So I wanted to free people from the burden of their relationship of money and basically we started looking after, we went after wealthier older people who were in the phase of the life where they had success and they were uncertain about the next path and they easily could retire but they were scared about it and they didn't know because they've just been on a path and just building for a long time. So we help them get really clear on what matters to them. Getting really understanding of what their values are, what their intentions are, how they would love to live their life and then connect the finance piece to it, which was a really, what's interesting is that now that's a bit more common, like there's a lot of values and gold space behavior but at the time that was very, very cutting edge and it was also extremely cutting edge because in that time it was a global recession was happening and there's a lot of people who were going into a scarcity mindset, they had lost a lot of money and when you actually looked at their situation, you had to almost say that was your responsibility. They're blaming like investment managers of the market, but they took on greed that they didn't need to have, that they had been connected to what actually mattered to their life and how much money they needed. They wouldn't have been in a lot of the investment portfolios they were, and that's when I started speaking to them and it was just an opportunistic time. I was 24 years old, very young, very little experience. But I was speaking a message that they could relate to at that moment because they were in pain and I said, well here's a pathway out of this and that's where basically all our Intentionality started and we've had lots of different iterations in that time. We also did a financial education company for millennials. But yeah, from day one, I really was focused on how do you, how do you free people from themselves effectively.

Jeff Bullas

00:14:01 - 00:15:13

And that, that is something I very much identify with. In fact, I was having a conversation this morning and, and the conversation was around I want to live a life of freedom that I'm watching one of my friends do. She's going Canary Island, she's going into, now she's in the Mediterranean, but she lives a very simple life. She has been an entrepreneur, but she has no debt, doesn't need much and I think the thing is that we've, I love the term intention because you need to have the intention to do something. Setting a hard goal is sometimes the goal is great but the reason is that life comes along and you have a plan and as you know, basically Mike Tyson said everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face and that's called life, right? So but I think rather than just turn up to life, is actually design a life and you've got to do that with intention, you've actually got to go, how do I live my life? How much money do I need to actually live a life of freedom?

Finnian Kelly

00:15:14 - 00:17:01

Yeah, you’re right. And getting connected to when you're designing the life, getting connected to how you want to feel because that's ultimately what matters is each day is how am I feeling? Am I having more positive emotions than negative ones? Do I feel free? Do I feel playful? Do I feel peaceful? Now, that could look so many different ways and like what you said the hard goals, so many people get focused on these hard goals but then something happens like a pandemic or a war and suddenly all those goals are out of that they're just, they're not going to be achieved. However the intention still can be, you can still feel a particular way regardless of what's happening in the world because that's an internal experience rather than external dependence. So I just really, it's like always just trying to inspire people to go like you really can live any life you want. Like we're all operating in the same world, We all come from the same place. Yes, we, some of us have more advantage upbringings, but we're all tapped into the same source and if someone on the other side of the world can make a decision or or live a life that way, then we can as well, we just have to take the action. We just have to believe it. But a lot of people are operating on these subconscious programs which aren't serving them or they're actually someone else's programs as well, telling them that this is what they need to do and that's where so many goals are set. Is it a goal that someone else has put into your head? And then you become attached to it because that's what we do as human beings become attached to things and then 20 years happen and suddenly you achieved the goal and you're more miserable than ever because you realized that was never your goal and you thought it was going to bring you happiness. And then when it doesn't, it's a bigger shot because now you're like, well now what I've just given up 20 years of my life.

Jeff Bullas

00:17:01 - 00:17:57

I think we don't realize, most of us don't realize how program we are by society and by our parents and by our friends and it takes conscious effort to actually break those templates and you have to ask yourself the question, what brings me joy? What brings me happiness? And I like, I find myself dragged back into the past and torn into the future instead of just living in the now and I love writing, but sometimes the day to day life gets in the way and I don't write, but when I do I go, wow, this feels so good. And we're gonna live life with that intention is to say, okay, what brings me joy? What brings me happiness, me happiness, not someone else?

And then I said that's selfish. It's actually not selfish because by you being happy, you can actually make other people happy.

Finnian Kelly

00:17:57 - 00:19:03

Oh totally, our fields interact with each other. We have these energetic fields around us and they're constantly bumping up against each other and know this because someone who has a negative field can walk into a room and suddenly feel bad and they haven't even communicated to you, but same with the positive energy, so that's where the greatest responsibility we have is actually to be selfish and to heal ourselves and to be peaceful and joyful love beings because that's all we really are. And when you do, that butterfly effect has, that rippling effect where you have an impact on someone and then because of that they go to their family and they'd be positive or they go into their team of 1000 people and they impact those 1000 people who then go impact their families.

And before you know that just one joyful moment has had a huge ripple effect on the world. And I really believe like there's so many people are out there who are trying to save the world and they've got it the wrong way around. Like you are the world, all you need to do is to save yourself, heal yourself, bring yourself into a joyful love being and you're doing your part. We don't actually have to go out and go and try to fix everyone else.

Jeff Bullas

00:19:03 - 00:19:05

Exactly. And it's never too late.

Finnian Kelly

00:19:06 - 00:19:08

No,

Jeff Bullas

00:19:08 - 00:20:05

I'm 65. I discovered at the age of 51, what I should be doing, which was blogging, writing, creating, sharing. So I started my blog based on the discovery of social media and the freedom it gave me too. Yeah, basically share my thoughts with the world and as I share them and wrote, I learned and as I showed up in the world, the world showed up and changed me. So I was trying to change the world in my own way. But the world changed me back in this two way conversation, that was social media. But that's a whole another conversation but I was listening to a podcast the other day was Tim Ferriss interviewing Steven Pressfield who wrote the book, The War of Art, which I would recommend to anyone. He said half your life is actually spent creating the vessel. The next half of your life is filling the vessel. And I went, wow.

Finnian Kelly

00:20:07 - 00:22:37

It is, yeah, I really liked what you said about, it's never too late. I just had a personal experience about this. So even though I have long blonde hair and I'm from Australia, I have not been a surfer in my life. I'm a skier and I am very good at skiing, but I haven't been a surfer. And what was happening every time I have these opportunities. I just wasn't grew up in a beach. But at 17, when I went to the military, I had some friends who surfed and I could have learned how to surf then but my ego rose up and I was like, I don't want to be bad at something because I was generally pretty good at something. And then another opportunity came seven years later and it kept coming up and I just kept refusing it. And then my girlfriend wanted to learn how to surf and I was like, I don't know if I want to do this. Yeah, it's late. I'm old now. We're not old, but I was like, it's too late to pick up a new sport. And then one of my mates who is 16 years older than me, you guys. Yeah, I wish I had like surfing. I think I really want to pick that up and I had this moment where I went. Imagine if he had picked it up at my age 36, 51 now, how happy he would be. He would have 15 years of surfing under his belt would probably be pretty good at this and he'd be saying

something different. He'd be like, yeah, I'm a great surfer now and I realized I have that opportunity and it gave me the impetus to just get over my ego and start surfing.

So I learned how to surf last year and now I brought the surf beach. I've now bought land in Panama. I'm like addicted to it. I was just surfing on the weekend and yes, I'm not a pro, like my friends are, but I can still have fun with it. And then I guarantee in 10, 15 years when I'm surfing with my kids, I'm going to be pretty happy that I just made the effort to do that. And that's just an example of where it's never too late. Like we, there's a Bill Gates quotes which is like dramatically overestimate what we can do in one year but underestimate what we can do in 10 and you can be a completely different person in 10 years. Like I look at the transformation I've had in the last five years and you couldn't imagine some of these things like we actually, this is the problem with visioning sometimes, sometimes we limit ourselves by our visions. Why we shouldn't get too attached to our visions because your program might be operating in a limited way. It might be saying you can only vision this particular way. So always allow some flexibility with any vision. I always say this or better, like it's like I pray for this or better, like allow the universe, the creation to bring something better to our lives.

Jeff Bullas

00:22:38 - 00:24:38

I love the term that quote by Bill Gates about, yeah, basically people, I cannot imagine what if they just did what well that one about. They can see what they can do in 12 months, but they can't see what they can do in 10 years and it's a bit like compounding interest.

Okay, so, I've been reading a book, The Psychology of Money by Gary. I think it's Gary Household. Just get his name right by Morgen Housel. Now this is very interesting because you actually are dealing with a tension between money and life. So again, it's the psychology of money. That's really what you're dealing with. And I went to get a bit more into that later. And we talked about intention to and some other books that have really impressed me. For example, The ONE Thing by Keller, and I think we live in a world of crazy manic productivity, right. We've got all these people around the world and all these experts telling us how to live this incredibly productive life that looks horrifying frankly. I think there's another term that's brought up recently called by the guy that wrote that, Cal Newport, he's talking about deep, deep living a deep life. In other words, we also think about to back to just living a slow productive life. But that's lived with intentionality. In other words, if you do just one key thing every day, one key thing, that means in one you've done 365 key things. Then if you times that by 10 you've done 3650 things in 10 years. This is compounding interest of life.

It's the same with money, people trade and you've done this. You've been a trader, you've gone in and out of markets. Reality tell me if this is right or wrong, is that, actually, index funds actually outperformed the day traders.

Finnian Kelly

00:24:38 - 00:25:11

Yeah, yeah. They generally do and it's because they just get the benefit of the I call it the Eighth Wonder of the World, which is compound interest and the system is rigged in your favor if you play to it. But most people don't, they don't realize that this is why people, wealthy people get wealthier because they literally know the rules of the game. That's the only difference and they play it and the system is set up for them to have success. You've just got to participate, you just got to play in it, that's the whole thing.

Jeff Bullas

00:25:11 - 00:25:27

And I think as creators and entrepreneurs, you've got to play the long game and as a creator, especially if you write one piece every day at the end of about three or four months, you've written a book and I believe you're in the middle of writing a book you mentioned as well,

Finnian Kelly

00:25:28 - 00:27:37

Yeah, I am now happily at the final stages. I've got one more month to go, I believe, which is, which is really great. It's been a year-long process and it's, and it's what's really cool about it is it's really a life's process because it's all the experiences in my life that have enabled me to write this book. And that's the power of when I transitioned to the word intentionality. It was very freeing in some regards because this is similar like a marriage, it's the sometimes commitment actually creates more freedom in your life because if you're committed, then you're not getting distracted and you have the freedom to play in this space. And I know as long as it fits under the Intentionality banner, I can do it now, I can do very diverse things like I'm doing a property investment fund right now, which would be like, how does this fit in with Intentionality? But it's because we're actually bringing Intentionality to this surf beach that I want to live in. And it's really exciting in that regard, and it makes full sense when you look at it that way. So, by having that one word, I have this in some regards, I'm saying it's my life's work now and you could see that as a lot of pressure, but it's also not because if it's your life's work, you've got your whole life to do it, you don't have to rush it. All right now, my first period of my life was all about rushing, rushing, rushing. I had to be the first person to do anything. I skipped grades at school. So I was the youngest person to finish school, the youngest army officer and there was almost a fear of not being the youngest and all that did was just make me race through life and not really experience the awesomeness and the brilliance of life which is in the present moment. So by bringing yourself up a little bit, wow, you can be a lot more creative. Like right now I'm on a sabbatical and it's interesting, I'm not a sabbatical from creating, I'm on a sabbatical from striving or having any goals or feeling obligated to do anything or having responsibility. And what's fascinating is I'm actually in my probably the greatest creative period in my life right now because I just gave myself all this freedom and I don't have any expectations of myself and I'm just doing it out of the love of it and this is how it's almost an experiment of how I want to live my life now.

Jeff Bullas

00:27:38 - 00:27:51

I totally agree with that. I read a great quote by Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett's partner, he said I never intended to be rich, I just intended to be independent.

Finnian Kelly

00:27:52 - 00:27:55

Yeah, you got connected to the feeling.

Jeff Bullas

00:27:55 - 00:28:15

So let's go back to where Intentionality evolved from. Was there an ah-ha moment where you went, I'm over this striving for making money because you're obviously investing in doing quite well. When did, was there an ah-ha moment or a transition to living life with intention?

Finnian Kelly

00:28:16 - 00:30:02

So there's quite a few. So in some regards, I was always living life with intentionality. I was very focused on, this is what I wanted for my life, what's gonna lead me towards it. And it worked very well for me until it didn't. Until a marriage breakdown happened, I had a business failure, I lost money and I got really burnt out. And I went through dark period of my life and it was a really interesting period because I was like, what's happening here? I was living a life with intentionality. I had a clear vision, was doing all these things and I had to start doing an inner exploration. I couldn't blame anyone else. I had to look at, well, what was I built and what's inside of me. And I started just exploring and going internal and internal and as I dug further and further further and further down, I realized the foundations of my operating system was built on fear. And when your foundations are built on fear, it doesn't matter what happens in your life, doesn't matter what empire you build, you're still going to be operating on fear and it will never fulfill. You always come crumbling down. And I realized that the only way we can really build anything is sustainable. Like fulfillment is to actually build something on love because that is what we are, where we are love at our core. That's the greatest highest emotion. So that was my moment where I realized it's not good enough just living with intentionality or thinking and living with intentionality. You have to look at what is the program's, what's the operating system built on. So that's where I went on this transition over the last five years to start operating from a place of love and wherever fear came in, I went, all right, I have to have to clean that program out. I have to put new code in and run a better program. So that was definitely one path.

Jeff Bullas

00:30:02 - 00:30:22

So let's stop right there. So, how do you put new code in when fear rises? In other words, fear of not being able to pay the rent, fear of not being able to pay the mortgage, afraid of having your car repossessed because you've got a huge debt on it. How do you reprogram that? How do you confront the fear? And do you tell us about that?

Finnian Kelly

00:30:23 - 00:36:01

Great. So what I discovered is that we all have these belief loops running within us. And basically the way we think about is, we have a core belief, that core belief drives certain thoughts. So for example, if I believe I'm never going to be provided for like that's a core belief, then thoughts, I'm going to be uh well, how am I going to pay this bill? If I don't have this job, then I'm going to run out of money. You can see you can have 1000 different thoughts for the one belief. Then that's going to drive certain behaviors. So certain behavior might be, well, I'm going to be, I have to work harder to make more money because that's a belief I might have or I might have to, I might not invest because I'm scared that if I invest, then I won't have the money to do it. And then that has these feelings where feelings of lack of feeling scared fear and that reaffirms the belief that core belief that I'm never going to be provided for. So what we have to do is look at it and go look at my feelings. And if you're feeling these negative feelings, then that's an indication that you've got a belief loop running that isn't serving you. And I'll say this to people, I don't care what you believe in. I really don't. Everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want to believe in. All I care about is your belief serving you? Is your belief giving you these positive emotions, these flourishing emotions? And if not, then maybe it's time to explore. Is there another belief loop that you'd love to put into a program? So once you uncover that pro that program that you have running and a good way to know what beliefs are is often what people have said to you. So for example, if a common saying in your household was that money doesn't grow on trees or that money is the root of all evil, then what's your relationship going to be like? That's going to drive certain things. And maybe that's why you've never allowed money into your life because you have associated money with evil.

Now, consciously you might be thinking, no, I don't believe in that, but it's not your conscious program which is operating. It's your subconscious program which is contradicting. And the subconscious program is what does all the work for you every day, Like you need your subconscious program working for you, it's your subconscious program is what enables you to breathe here. It's when you cut your finger. Your subconscious program just instantly knows how to heal that, where we've lost the connection that it can do that with everything in our life. So we need to start going okay, how do we consciously start programming our subconscious to work in a way that we want. So then what we do is okay you have this negative belief loop running, let's write a positive belief loop. What are the feelings that you want to be feeling? Well, I want to feel grateful. I want to feel abundant. I want to feel free. Great. Well what behaviors would lead to that and then what thoughts would lead to that and what core belief would you need to have to do that?

So you have this contrasting and one way to really do it is to look at someone else who has that belief loop, what thoughts and what behaviors and what feelings do they have? And then we need to line the two up and go. The only thing we have free will over is our behaviors. That's the one thing that we have conscious ability to change. I can either react or I can respond reacting is just going on. Your normal belief loop responding is taking a breath and going, what behavior is going to lead to the feeling I want? Well if I want to feel like abundant and free well maybe a behavior is I need to invest even though right now it's scary because I'm in debt but investing is the pathway to feeling more abundant. And when you start doing those behaviors you start feeling more of those positive emotions with reaffirms and new belief now this is something which we did in our company with millennials, which was revolutionary at the time because if you go to any financial advisor and you're in debt, they'll always tell you their secrets. Yeah, you've got to pay off your highest debt first, the highest percentage one and then knock it off or eliminate certain things. And it's always missing something because it's not taking in the psychological element of the human, it's not taking the subconscious program. There's a reason why that person is in debt. It's because they have a subconscious program which is forcing them to be in that position. So it doesn't matter if you work out the best financial strategy to pay off their debt faster, they'll start paying it off and then eventually that program will kick back in and they'll just get back in debt again. And this is the process, it just happens over and over again.

So what we would do is go, yes, so let's look at a strategy for paying off debt, but let's not operate in that world anymore. Let's operate in the world of an abundant person and a person who believes that there's always going to be enough and they're going to be provided for what do they do. Well they invest. So we would set them up with investment plans and yes, technically on a financial return metric paying off the debt would be better than the investment return of the investment, but it's not about the numbers, it's about how do we actually make positive change. And as soon as that person would start building up their investment portfolio, they would start building more confidence. They start believing in themselves and start acting like a person who was abundant. And then at some point that portfolio would start getting bigger than the debt. And then they were often running because when you're paying off debt or you're going to zero, you're getting back to the start line, but if you start investing, you're in an unlimited, in the infinite world, which is really, really exciting. So a lot of the times these things don't make sense, but we don't make sense. Like it makes no sense the way we behave as humans. So sometimes we have to do something which doesn't make sense to counteract that.

Jeff Bullas

00:36:01 - 00:37:09

Yeah, it's fascinating and you and I both listened to a podcast by Tim Ferriss with Morgen Housel and it was interesting that both of them had decided even though it didn't make the typical financial sense because it's not leveraged is that they both own their homes outright with no debt. And I went that's interesting because what society tells you is that you should have a home loan and leverage it so you actually can make more money. But what they forget is that they're missing the psychology of what it means to be human is the feeling of being free. In other words, if you live in your own house, the bank has no title, nothing against you to take that house and so there's a psychology is that you have abundance because you have that independence and you own your house and sometimes it's hard to do especially expensive places like Sydney, but that's where the abundance is like I am free, I own my house, I don't have any debt and I don't know I'm interested your thoughts on that attitude.

Finnian Kelly

00:37:09 - 00:39:17

I really agree with it. I really am glad that there's some great leaders out there who are sharing these things because the system who's in the best interest to keep you going in this place, institutions, because it keeps still flowing, it's not designed for the individual. So there is an abundant people think abundance is just about having a lot. There is an abundant mentality to be able to say no to a lot. That's actually more abundance going, that's cool. You can, you can have that, I don't need that, that really is true abundance where you're in that place where you actually are so comfortable, so happy with your own internal feelings that you don't need any of that external world. That's incredible. So I highly recommend people to like break away from some of these structures and who says that you can't have a two month break every year. Like why the system tells you to retire and have this long break because they want people working for that amount of time. But actually, if you think about it, we athletes, what do they do all the time? They have brakes, they have periods where they recharge and then they build up again. But we're in this modern day world of productivity, we got to constantly keep going, going, going, going, going, going, going until for what purpose and then we think that we'll be able to enjoy our life later or we'll be able to enjoy the benefits of work. But if you don't know how to be happy now, you're not gonna be able to know how to be happy in the future. It's going to be very, very challenging and to think that you can suddenly go from all to nothing. It's very, very hard, like you need to learn how to switch off. It's like these devices, people, it's like when people come over to my place for dinner, I let, make them have their phone downstairs and you should see the anxiety they go through, go through an hour and a half to actually sit down with your friends and have dinner. So we've got to have these moments of like testing ourselves and forcing ourselves to have brakes because it's, once it's programmed into us, it's very hard to get off because we are programmed in these things now and if we're not being intentionally how we we have a relationship with them then before we know it, we become a computer, which is where the world's going anyway.

Jeff Bullas

00:39:19 - 00:39:55

Yeah. We often forget to live in the now. One of my favorite books is The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. I love this quote that he had was the past, he's gone. You can't change that. The future hasn't happened yet, so you can't change that. The only thing you've got is now and our programming is to worry about the future and to worry about what happened in the past is what people think. But the only thing you've got is now and society teaches us, it doesn't teach us to live that way.

Finnian Kelly

00:39:55 - 00:40:42

So true. So I'm a great student of Eckhart Tolle. I love you have been to his retreats and it's funny when you said that quote actually went, well there is one step further. You actually can change your future and change your past by the now. So what's interesting when you do something in the now, your past changes like as I've done healing work, the memories I have of the past have changed and I actually have more positive memories and that was all done in the now. So my past has changed and I know my future is as well. So this is where we can really do everything we need to do if we just focus on what do we need to do right now and what's going to give to the to what's going to lead to us feeling the way we want to feel and then the future always just takes care of itself as well, doesn't it?

Jeff Bullas

00:40:42 - 00:41:32

Yeah, exactly. And this is where just taking action in the direction of your intention every day. Just one thing in other words, write 500 words if you want to write a book every day. And the great book by Keller, which is The One Thing, which basically it is, it's almost like slow productivity because you talked about things like this manic productivity to get all this stuff done, you're at the edge all the time and that's a very scary way to live frankly. And yet we're told by society and the experts that this is, you've got to be absolutely efficient like a computer and you're going, hang on, I'm not a computer, I'm a human.

Finnian Kelly

00:41:32 - 00:42:43

The whole productivity trap the whole story of why we needed to do all these things with technology has always been about, it's gonna have high productivity to free you up. Why is it that we're all working harder than ever before? That's so it's a big lie. It's a big fallacy. It's a trap that the act of being more productive just enables you to be more productive. It means that more things are gonna keep coming in and this is where people are just on the hedonic treadmill of life, they're just going around and around and around and just realizing just step off it a little bit, like just it's it's like the difference between when you're going like flats tilt on a on a treadmill, if you just drop it back a tiny little bit, you can go a really, really long time and you're not exhausted, that's how we just need to operate in life a little bit and that's once again, an abundant mentality, just go, it'll be okay. It's not saying don't do anything, like people think this surrendering is a passive action is a very active action to surrender, to be able to go in the moment and I'm okay with this, that's that's very powerful.

Jeff Bullas

00:42:45 - 00:43:01

So let's look at your intention framework. So in your and the information you shared with me before we got on the call, you talk about Intentionality framework, can you go through what that is?

Finnian Kelly

00:43:02 - 00:48:00

Yeah, for sure. So, we basically have four paths we call about, it's the pathway of life and if you ask anyone at any self help group or reading a book or going to retreats, they're generally there for one of four things, they're looking for some direction or some purpose. So that's our grounding path, it's all about what really matters to you, what are your values? And it's called the grounding path because life happens and sometimes you get knocked off and someone else takes you on a different path, and you need to be able to have this grounding path look at and go, oh that's great for you, it's not great for me, it pulls you back, ground you back into what's important.

We then have the love path, which is all about love for yourself, for your intimate relationship, friends and family, about how do you bring more connection into your life? How do you live rather than having a great relationship? How do you have an extraordinary relationship? We then have the prosperity path, which is all about, how do we have a relationship with prosperity, how do we earn money, how to invest it? How do we use it for impact? And then we have the well being path which is all about physical, mental and spiritual, so the way we look at it is that you are walking down four paths concurrently.

The grounding path, see that is almost like, that's the most important pathway and then you have these little sub sects which is the prosperity, love and well being, and all these paths lead to intentionality. So if you start living one path with intentionality, it starts having flow on effects because they can currently, they're lined up like when you improve your well being, generally your prosperity improves because you're able to make better decisions, you're, you're sharper, you're more enjoyable to be around, then that has a flow on effect on love and vice versa. So you can enter in any of these different pathways and the really important part is, is to get just looking at, we have a five step process where um you look at first getting clarity, clarity of who you are, what's got you to where you are, what programs you have running and what is it that really sort of matters to you, then we have intentional visioning looking forward in the now, what is it that you want to create? How do you want to feel? What are the different avenues and you look at each of those different pathways? We then get into intentional planning, so setting up a plan and, and yes, you don't want to get too caught up in the plan, but if you don't have a little bit of a plan, you can just get knocked off on your pathway and have no idea. So thinking about, alright, what's going to set us up for best success? What's the, what's the systems that I could use, who could I get to help? How do I like to accelerate this? This process takes a little bit and then we have intentional action.

So you forgot the plan, you got the vision, how do you actually take the action? What are the daily behaviors and you need to do to line that up and then finally accountability, having an accountability process, whether it's to yourself to a coach or the community to make sure it keeps going and it's once again, it's a loop. It's an iterative process. You don't just go through the process in a linear fashion, you get to the end and then you back through again and you learn a little bit more about yourself and then you go, okay, I'll adjust my vision a little bit, then I'll adjust my plan, just my actions and accountability and keeps going through that way. So that's really the framework that we look at and each of those steps have some core things. So, for example, that belief loop that I ran through before, that's a very important part of intentional clarity, getting clarity and what are the belief loops that are driving you to be where you're at. Because that's your subconscious that has led you to where you are right now. It's not that you're bad or that subconscious bad. It's just it might not be working for you.

So we need to get the clarity and that to go what do we need to work through? And it's a very, what I love about it is it's a very behavior based philosophy. It's not just high level, a bunch of principles to live off. It's like how do you do that today? And we have seven core principles of intentionality, which is think of them as signposts or lights on the path on your path just to help you just remind you where your path is. And if you go off track a little bit, you can look for the side post to go, oh that's right energy instead of time. I've been operating in a time construct. I keep thinking I've got to work harder to make this right one is if I just spend some time energy and manifesting and creating. So that's one way I've been in a fear world, I'm going to choose love instead of fear. So moving into love and that gets you back onto your path so you can start living that way and that's really how we operate. And if I had to break it down, it's basically take one breath and you're already on the path of intentionality because that breath enables you to change from reaction, which is a subconscious program to response, which is the conscious ability of free will to write your new belief belief loop.

Jeff Bullas

00:48:00 - 00:48:04

Cool. So what are the seven principles of intentionality?

Finnian Kelly

00:48:04 - 00:48:58

One is to experience peace and joy by choosing love over fear. So peace and joy are the two core emotions that we really all want. We want peace and we want joy. You will notice this in a lot of religious texts. It's all about how to experience more peace and joy. And the only way to do that is to choose love. And it's very binary. In each, every moment you're in either in a love state or you're in a fierce state, high vibration, low vibration and a low vibrational state will never lead to fulfillment, only high vibration. So making sure that we're in a place of love and going are we towards love or away from love.

And I really believe that is the fundamental principle of intentionality. Like if you just get connected to that everything else sort of works out. Do you actually want me to go through or 7?

Jeff Bullas

00:48:58 - 00:49:05

I'd like it because what we do is we carve out these into snippets of video. So yep. So right.

Finnian Kelly

00:49:06 - 00:51:06

So the second principle is to discover your true nature by practicing the power of presence. So we spoke about the power of the now and how do we get into the now it's being present, it's being right here, right now, not in your thoughts, it's a full body experience. And when we do that, we learn things about ourselves, we realize that we are not our thoughts that we are our true nature is that we're infinite powerful, abundant love beings. It's that idea of when you just lie down under a tree on the grass and you just fully present suddenly just feel this just great state and you realize wow I'm not my thoughts, I'm something else, there's something behind it and we're and that's what I'm really helping people get to in that moment whenever we're we're caught in a world of worry or fear or just concerned, just get into the now breathing, whether it's meditating, you get to that true nature.

Principle #3 is what we were speaking about before is designing a life you love by rejecting social conditioning and writing your own rules. The only way to live a life that you love is to decide how you're going to live it. You get to write your rules, you don't have to operate off anyone else's program. And you have to reject social conditioning because we as a society can sometimes force us down a path which isn't serving us and we need to have the agency to go, that's great for you. This isn't great for me. I'm happy that you want, you're choosing that path. But this is me, this is mine and I want a life that you love. So for example, that's why I ski in Colorado 100 days a year, I love skiing. So when I one year I came over and I was so happy and I went, well I'm so happy here, why aren't I spending more time? Like why am I only spending one more week and just even that someone, most people don't even give themselves permission.

Jeff Bullas

00:51:07 - 00:51:08

They don't give themselves permission.

Finnian Kelly

00:51:09 - 00:55:05

Yeah, so that's the key behavior of this is giving yourself permission. Principle #4 is to gain freedom by eliminating friction through self made boundaries. So we want more freedom. The way to do that is to eliminate friction, friction isn't nice when we have friction that slows us down and how do we eliminate that? We put that through self made boundaries and put a boundary up and saying I am going to operate in this realm and that gives me a sense of freedom. So boundary for me is everything I do has to be aligned with intentionality. And now that suddenly given me so much freedom because I say no to a lot of things, which even though they're great opportunities and not for me and I don't have that friction. Another thing I did was, for example, a silly one was golf. I realized I didn't enjoy golf that much, was okay at it, but I, whenever I, if people would ask me and they would pressure me. Now, I just went to a place where I just say I don't play golf and suddenly I don't have the friction. People don't force anything on me when they hear that I don't play golf, no one wants to play golf with someone who doesn't play golf, I have this freedom now in that regard. So that's that's another great example.

Principle #5 is to feel fulfilled by prioritizing desired feelings over outcomes. Feel fulfilled by prioritizing desired feelings over outcomes. So this is the idea of getting focused on intentions rather than goals or outcomes based intentions or feelings. And the only way that we truly can feel fulfilled is we're connected to the feelings, we've got to prioritize them. It doesn't mean that goals aren't important, they're just not as important as the feeling because often we can get focused on the goal at the cost of the feeling. So get really connected to those feelings.

Principle #6 is to create exponential results by leveraging energy instead of time. So energy instead of time, we don't operate in a linear world. We operate in this quantum field, this energetic space moving around, things can happen easier than what we imagine. Some people have to work really hard. Some people don't, some people just believe that things work easily and then they suddenly do things. So we need to get very aware of how is our energy operating. Not one hour of time is an equivalent to one another hour of time. If you're really have high energy, you can have a greater outcome and that's where you get those exponential results.

And then the final one, once you've done all them, you're walking down a path is to be very mindful of other people's experiences. That principle seven has escaped the prison of comparison by focusing on your path and what steps you can take today. There's always someone who has more, there's always someone who's doing better. And once you start that game of comparison, you're in a prison because there's always someone who has a better outcome than you. The problem is that paths don't end up in a linear fashion. You might be comparing yourself against someone's path and then they happen to a big detour and they're back around and suddenly you're ahead of them.

So the key is just to focus on your path and just what steps can you take today. Yes, you're not where you want to be. But what's the one step you can do today. So when we live these seven principles and they are order, but you can start any of them. Basically, start, I just see it as a grounding path. I come back to it and go, okay, what's going wrong? Why am I feeling off? I've been playing that time construct again, I've been working hard thinking that's outcome. Perhaps if I get into my meditation and leverage energy and start manifesting, perhaps this could be easy for them or whoa, why have I been feeling so average? I've been comparing recently, I've been comparing against other people. Okay, come back to my grounding path, that's great for them. But that's not the path I chose. I didn't want the billion dollar business because I wanted the lifestyle and that's what really matters to me. So you see them as a little grounding signpost pull you back.

Jeff Bullas

00:55:06 - 00:57:24

Yeah, I love the last one. and I think social media said this in other words, we compare ourselves to others all the time. In other words, there's a saying that goes: the person who dies with the most toys wins. That's a very scary way to live. Yeah. And this is some of the issues, I think we have a look. I'm a big advocate of social media. I started a blog on social media. I believe that it freed everyone up to actually share that gift with the world and I still believe it does. But there's a dark side to this. And a friend of mine shared this with me a couple of years ago with social media. We compare our insides to the outsides of others and that is a very, very dangerous way to live. In fact, I hardly ever get onto social media to look at what the rest of the world is doing because it's the polished external joyful pictures that are shared, not the painful ones. And then if you look at that you feel less worthy because as humans go into this comparison mode all the time and that's how wiring and but that's why I love the last one, especially I loved all the others as well. But it's just I think being mindful to actually take the time to design your life and live life with intention as you've done, which is fabulous. And yeah, I know that's the way I've been living my life since about 2013 when I left the full time job and chose to design a life and it's been liberating and but you know, things show up like pandemics and potential world wars and but you're still going to be true to yourself.

Now, the other thing I want to ask you is what are some of the people and resources that have inspired you in your path? You know, like is there certain books, is there's certain things you do? And maybe the other thing about that is what does your day look like and how do you live in your routine? And it sounds to me like you live almost a slow productive life, not a manic productive life.

Finnian Kelly

00:57:24 - 00:59:01

Yeah, I used to live quite manic and now I've definitely slowed everything down. And it's been liberating and very freeing. So in regard to the people I learned from, I'm very lucky that I have a program where I can choose to pick the things out of certain people and I don't have to like everything about them. So a lot of people, this is the problem with the trap with the prison of comparison. If you compare yourself against one variable, you have to compare against your whole thing. So if you want their money then you have to take their relationship with their wife or husband with their kids, you have to take their health the whole thing. But often people don't do that, they just look at one variable. So I always say like, okay, you can have that, you have, you have it all and do you still want it? Sorry, who I've learned from? So I have great teachers, incredible teacher Dr. Joe Dispenza, Don Miguel Ruiz like The Four Agreements. I think if you just read that book and lived by those four agreements, everything would be pretty good. It's very similar to the intentionality philosophies principles to ground you in how to behave each day, which is very powerful. I've had some great, through my EOJourney, I'm part of the Entrepreneurs Organization and being part of a peer of great people. I've got to see behind the scenes of a lot of people because we're very vulnerable and very open. So I love learning from them. And I actually have my forum coming and staying with me this weekend and I'm really looking forward because I get to just learn from from them all the time.

Jeff Bullas

00:59:01 - 00:59:04

Is that chapter available in Australia as well?

Finnian Kelly

00:59:04 - 01:00:09

Yeah, Australia's got a really big presence in Entrepreneurs Organization, I actually started there. There's chapters all around. It's amazing. So highly recommend that and that's and then I would probably the greatest place I go to is the daughter of a king. It's a yeah, it's a, it's a spiritual text from China, 1000 years ago. It was allowed to do and it's all about, it's all about the magic happens in the middle. It's in the middle center. Don't force it, be one with it. It's being like very behind the scenes and that's probably been my greatest teacher because I just, I can pick up a verse and just connect with it and let it just marinade through me and go, right, how do I want to live in line with that? And there's a great, if you want to get into that, there's a great book by Wayne Dyer where he actually, yeah, he actually talks about his experience with it and just, it helps you understand because it is, it is very philosophical and when he goes through his experience, it's really helpful.

Jeff Bullas

01:00:10 - 01:01:12

Yeah, I think he breaks down the philosophy into actions that inspired him. I think there's 87 principles isn't there? I think, is that correct? It is, yeah, I've read, I've read Wayne Dyer's book twice on this. And the truth sits in the middle life, lives in the middle living the extremes of either and that's the whole message of the dow really is. And that sounds very simplistic and it is, but when you read the 87 verses it's pretty interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's very, very cool.

So, you're taking sabbatical, but how does your day look in other words, how do you design your life on a day to day basis? Like I know you have like a quite a long routine. I'm always interested in people's routines because that's how they're designing their life and then out of that comes abundance. So how's your daily routine look generally, I know it will change from time to time.

Finnian Kelly

01:01:12 - 01:03:22

Yeah, so I do have a very intentional morning and my morning actually starts the night before. So I see it as one routine, it just happens to be sleep in the middle of it. So the night before I want to make sure I'm off technology. I really have tracked technology use before bed and it directly affects my sleep, my dreams. So I make sure I'm off technology for ideally over an hour. Generally do some form of meditation or some form of breath in the evening. I like to do a reflection. So I like to explore how did I feel today and then think about what was the negative belief loop that was driving those feelings. So it's almost like being a little detective everyday looking inside my subconscious programming, then go to sleep.

In the morning, no phone, no technology until I finish my morning routine. So I get up, I have some water, meditate, do with the personal meditation for an hour and five minutes of meditation, sending loving kindness out to the world. Then I do kundalini before that. Actually kundalini yoga is like some movements and opening up my spine, then do some breath work. Then I'll do some, I'll like maybe do a tarot card reading just for a bit of intention for the day.

My journal. What I'm grateful for envisioning for the day and then maybe read a verse of the Tao Te Ching and when I do that I just feel super grounded, super great and then I just, I don't want to go straight on technology. I try to, if I've got some form of creative endeavor, I might work on that. So I might do some book writing or write something or I might just go out into nature and go ski or hike and then come back and then I generally fast and have breakfast and then I get into some work. I like working in the afternoon block because I feel like I've nourished me first and then I'm able to nourish others in the afternoon and then, and then I relax into the evening and just really have intentional dinners and like that's something I do every night. Like I sit down with my partner and we, we have a process with dinner and it's a, it's a really enjoyable exercise.

Jeff Bullas

01:03:22 - 01:04:09

That sounds fabulous and I think that's living life with intention. In other words, you're designing how you want to live and you've, you've done it also, you've made choices financially, it allowed you to give you that freedom. In other words, you've designed your life. So you have independence, which I think as humans, we want, we desire so deeply, we want to be able to live the life that we want rather than the life that other people want and it sounds like you've done that in an awesome way.

So is there anything you'd like to leave tips for people regarding maybe money or designing life that you think that you've learned along the way that are very, very important?

Finnian Kelly

01:04:10 - 01:06:39

Yeah, I do. So I'm actually, I'll give you your audience access to a little course that we normally charge money for, but I'll give it to you free for your audience. And it's called the intentionality compass. And it's a really great process to get really clear on what matters to you. This is the fundamental thing. If you do not know what matters to you, how are you ever going to live a life that's going to fulfill you? And most people aren't willing to claim it. They think I wish I could do this or anything, but it's like, well what is it that you really want? And then once you get really clear on what you want and then have a better understanding what behaviors to do, then also tap into the universal energy is divine source, which wants you to have what you want. Like that is one of the secrets of the world. It's one of the laws of the world is if you get really connected to your belief, then it will be provided to you. So be willing, be courageous and yes, it might be so different from where you're at right now, but don't even get into the story of why I can't have this, just get really clear on what matters and then it's amazing what things show up and you've got to be disconnected from the time frame just because you want it now doesn't mean it can come those things which I set in motion 10, 15 years ago and they're coming into fruition now and I'm like, wow, it's, it's you have no control over this, like there's an element, but the one thing you do have control over it is if you want it enough, like you get really clear, it will come to you, it really will and the more you get connected to it, the more will come because the crazy thing is everything in your life, you have actually brought it into your life, you have wanted it, you just might have done it very unconsciously and you might have been bringing in things which are negative or not serving you.

So once you get connected to that realization, there might be a little moment where you're like, wow, I can't believe I've done this to myself and there's an opportunity for the ego to rise up and you can judge yourself or you can go, that's cool, I've learned now here's my opportunity and I'm not going to allow myself to go down that path again and that's that's what I think is the most Actually, no, it's the most important thing and if you get connected to that, then your life can completely change and you don't even know what life, you could be living in five years time, you could be so different from where it is right now. Like this happens on the entrepreneurial journey all the time. We see someone and then five years later their life is just so different and that can be remarkable.

Jeff Bullas

01:06:40 - 01:07:00

I think you've tapped into what's important, is to ask the big question first. Why am I here on this planet? What am I meant to be doing? And double down on that and keep looking. And I love the quote by Steven Spielberg. He said that what you're meant to be doing this life will show up as a whisper. It will not shout.

Finnian Kelly

01:07:01 - 01:07:21

Yeah and you have to pay attention. That's the attention bit. You have to be aware. Most people are so focused on complaining about what they don't have that. They miss out on the little opportunities. Just saying, here's your opportunity, here's your opportunity and that's where you've got to create the space. That's the whole DAO is like magic happens in not doing

Jeff Bullas

01:07:21 - 01:07:59

Exactly and you've got to go into the silence to hear the whisper because business will actually stop you hearing it.

Mate, it's been an absolute pleasure and I love what you're doing on the planet and look forward to catching up in real life, mate. And yeah, so whether it's in Aspen or whether it's in Sydney or somewhere else on the planet, mate. I look forward to sharing a drink cup of tea, whatever. But yeah, breaking bread with you mate, that would be fantastic.

Finnian Kelly

01:08:00 - 01:08:02

I appreciate that as well mate. I really enjoyed it.

Jeff Bullas

01:08:04 - 01:08:05

Thank you.