Neil Emeigh is the CEO and Founder of Rayobyte, a ~45 person proxy and data collection company with over 4000 customers and 50 employees. In a nutshell, he helps companies gather data online at scale.
Rayobyte is an award-winning proxy provider committed to reliability and ethics. They are the largest US-based proxy provider and offer a wide range of services from data center proxies to boutique data scraping.
The first 3 months of business during his college life the company made:
- $100k in revenue in year 1
- $1.1m in Year 2
- $2.9m in year 3
Fast forward to today, the revenue is growing rapidly on one of their most important product lines. Neil has grown his company by himself, entirely bootstrapped, and recently turned down an offer to sell it for $25m.
What you will learn
- Learn how proxies enable companies to gather large amounts of online data through web scraping while maintaining privacy and avoiding detection.
- Understand how using proxies and VPNs can help protect your online privacy by preventing tracking and manipulation of search results, such as flight prices.
- Discover the role of web scraping in helping businesses collect valuable data like competitor pricing, product availability, and customer reviews for better decision-making.
- Understand the potential of AI in enhancing data scraping by making it easier to analyze and interpret large datasets, although the technology is still evolving.
- Learn the importance of staying authentic, focused, and aligned with your passion when building an online business, as illustrated by Neil’s entrepreneurial journey.
Transcript
Jeff Bullas
00:00:03 – 00:00:57
Hi, everyone and welcome to the Jeff Bullas Show. Today I have with me. Now, Neil is a CEO and founder of Rayobyte, – a 45 person proxy and data scaling company. In a nutshell, he helps companies gather data online at scale. Rayobyte is an award-winning proxy provider committed to reliability and ethics. They are the largest US-based proxy provider and offer a wide range of services from data center proxies to boutique data scraping.
The first 3 months of business during his college life the company made: $100k in revenue in year 1, $1.1m in Year 2 and $2.9m in year 3. Fast forward to today, the revenue is growing rapidly on one of their most important product lines.
Neil has grown his company by himself, entirely bootstrapped, and recently turned down an offer to sell it for $25m.
Jeff Bullas
00:00:58 – 00:01:12
Neil, Welcome to the show. It’s great to have you here and I’m sure everyone’s working out what is a proxy and data scaling company? So Neil quickly explain that to us.
Neil Emeigh
00:01:12 – 00:01:55
Yes. Thanks for having me, Jeff. Um So I get asked this question a lot. I’ve been doing this for nine years. And so I’ve kind of got an elevator pitch nailed down for the ordinary consumer. Um One of your most major use cases is when you book a flight or book a hotel, usually most people are going to Google flights, Skyscanner, booking.com, hotels.com, you name it those sites. When you, the consumer, go to those sites, you’re usually looking for the cheapest price in most cases. And so you see your listing and it’s sorted from lowest price to highest price. Well, the way that all these companies, Trivago Kayak, keep on Expedia, keep going, keep going. The way that they’re getting that data is via web scraping.
Neil Emeigh
00:01:55 – 00:02:26
And some people then ask like, oh, I would assume that they would have direct partnerships with those other companies, but those other comp the flight companies like Delta or United, they’re not incentivized just to hand out their data to anyone who asks for it. And so therefore the world of web scraping was built to help kind of that in between comp companies data like Delta United and the likes of a search engine of sorts. That is one of many use cases anyways
Jeff Bullas
00:02:27 – 00:02:44
go. OK. So what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to help people get a cheapest price because you don’t want the algorithms of those companies to actually override you and give you an increasing price as you continue to search. Is that correct? That, that,
Neil Emeigh
00:02:44 – 00:03:20
that, that can be true. Yeah. Um, this, in this case, it’s, it’s more for the, as a consumer, we want options. We want to know, tell me the 100 hotels in this city that I can choose from and I wanna know what their ratings are about them? What are their prices? Where are they located and all these things? I want that all in one screen in front of me. If I just go to, let’s say this Hilton’s website, well, then I’m not seeing other brands like Marriott or boutique brands. And so as a consumer, I get that value of everything in front of me. I am booking.com for example.
Jeff Bullas
00:03:20 – 00:04:05
Ok. So I think one of the biggest challenges for consumers is that they would use the open web. They’ll go and use Google, I use Safari, which is actually back ended into Google, right? Then you’ve got bing and so on. Um you go there and they’ve got algorithms making sure that you go to where they want you to go. And as you search for the cheapest airfare, which I think is a great example you used right off the bat. Is that as you go to that website, you know, in Australia would be Qantas for an air flight in America would be Delta in, you know, the Middle East. It would be, you know, Qatar Airlines, the list goes on, right?
Jeff Bullas
00:04:06 – 00:04:33
They will know who you are and you’ve kept searching. I can actually get them to spend $7000 for a business class flight instead of, you know, $15,000. 0, sorry, I want you to spend 15 instead of $7000 right? So does a proxy server that is just, that has scraped the web and actually is producing almost like it sounds like you’re producing honest data because it’s raw. Is that correct?
Neil Emeigh
00:04:33 – 00:04:58
That is, yeah, you start getting really deep into the technicalities of uh the value of where a proxy comes. So data scraping is kind of the next layer above proxies proxy is at the most fundamental foundational layer to help make this all happen above the data scraping layer, you get to your websites like a booking.com. So the proxy layer, what a proxy is is it’s your IP address at home. Most people know
Neil Emeigh
00:04:58 – 00:05:33
an IP address says if you go on Google right now and type in what is my IP. It’ll split out these random strings of numbers and they’ll say this is your IP that identifies you online. So target companies and websites can, uh follow you just even by your IP address. But then there’s other techniques to follow you um called fingerprinting that we have to evade. And so whether at the proxy layer or the scraping layer, there are all kinds of techniques to do, avoid being tracked and so on and so forth. So we can get the most clean data that we want at the end of the day,
Jeff Bullas
00:05:33 – 00:06:08
right? OK. So there’s another option which is you could go incognito by clicking a button on Google. And I can tell you right now that 90% of people wouldn’t even know what that means. So this is where proxy, you know, they are incognito. Um So we’re playing at the edges of the web which actually benefit consumers. And for example, proxies are used, for example, in authoritarian states like China and Russia to stop people finding information around the world. Is that correct?
Neil Emeigh
00:06:08 – 00:06:15
Yeah. Yeah. People use it for privacy applications essentially to get around the firewalls of China and so forth.
Jeff Bullas
00:06:16 – 00:06:21
So if I used Incognito mode on Google, would that still be tracked?
Neil Emeigh
00:06:22 – 00:06:59
Yeah, you’re right. So that’s the perfect example where they claim uh uh incognito D definitely has a layer of tracking prevention. But even then as soon as you’ve established your browser profile in this on incognito mode, websites have gotten so advanced these days because it’s in their best interest they want to know and they wanna target you with ads ultimately at the end of the day that even in incognito that once you’re in that one instance, they can even track you at that browser level. But the question you’re asking on proxies is
Neil Emeigh
00:06:59 – 00:07:18
good example, even if you did everything you could at the browser level with incognito change some settings, there’s some plugins that help randomly generate some fingerprints, you still have the same IP address and none of the plugins, none of the browsers can or would change that because there’s an actual cost to, to using a proxy,
Jeff Bullas
00:07:18 – 00:07:22
right? So Incognita doesn’t remember IP addresses or just how they track you.
Neil Emeigh
00:07:23 – 00:07:27
Yeah, exactly. So then it’s still just really easy at the end of the day, right?
Jeff Bullas
00:07:28 – 00:07:58
OK. So if you want to get the best deals on the web with our algorithms from all the players, the Amazons, everyone’s the airlines. If you, these guys have got Engin, you know, they’ve got like squeals engineers sitting in their back room planning, designing their websites, they uh booking ecommerce sites. So if you really want to take advantage of getting the best prices on the web, I’m gonna make it really simple here. Um And not be tracked. You should be using a proxy. Is that correct
Neil Emeigh
00:07:59 – 00:08:10
proxy or a more common consumer usage is a VPN. They’re the same thing. In essence, you get a different IP address from a different location but different technologies underneath it.
Jeff Bullas
00:08:11 – 00:08:36
So VPN is what we would call, we spell it out. That algorithm would be a virtual private network. So, Neil, what you’re really about is you’re trying to actually help people get the best prices for airline products. Uh not have uh national governments track you hunt you down and put you in jail.
Neil Emeigh
00:08:37 – 00:08:52
Yeah, there’s, there’s, those are big, big categories there but, yeah. Yeah, there’s, there’s tons, there’s, there’s so many more leads. Lead generation is another huge part of the industry, in helping get sales leads from a business side instead of the consumer side. You know,
Jeff Bullas
00:08:52 – 00:09:31
I, I’m just trying to put it into a sense of where, you know, like, um, how come this, I’ve got these ads from all these people, like I went and searched, you know, you know, pink bikes online and suddenly they all turn up on my feed, they turn up on Facebook, they turn up everywhere. So, because people might have the, you know, the, the idea that proxies and virtual private networks are for the bad guys. The reality is it’s actually to look after the good guys that are trying on good girls. Let’s be, you know, get on the diversity thing here, right? That are actually trying to make sure
Jeff Bullas
00:09:31 – 00:09:56
that they’re not being tracked, they can get, you know, good prices for products. They can actually book airline flights at the right prices instead of being ripped off. Look, I’ve gone kayaking for example and, you know, booked a rental car and, and I went, didn’t these guys check this company out because I’ve turned up in this rental car and it’s nice in France. And it’s actually, it’s got like a, you know, really like
Jeff Bullas
00:09:59 – 00:10:15
this little shabby hut and like a gravel road and uh look, you can navigate that. It’s fine. But so what we have is these guys actually aren’t curating, they’re actually scraping the information and delivering it.
Neil Emeigh
00:10:16 – 00:10:24
Yeah. Right. Right. And the more places they can scrape the wider their category goods and then the more that the consumer has to choose from. All
Jeff Bullas
00:10:25 – 00:10:34
right. Cool. All right. I look, I, I think what you’re doing is actually fantastic. And, uh, it’s, but it’s not talked about very often, is it?
Neil Emeigh
00:10:35 – 00:11:15
No, no, because of what you allude to. It’s a, it’s a, it’s, it’s in the middle, it’s in the, it’s in the gray. Depends on who you ask. If you ask Hilton, they’ll say that web scrapers are the scum of the earth. If you ask the Googles of the world, Google is a search engine which the way they get the results is they’re scraping. So the, the, the, one of the largest companies in the world is built on scraping the entire web. If you ask the kayaks of the world, they’ll say scraping is valuable. And so that’s where you kind of get, you get big huge companies, lobbyists from both sides saying one to the other. And we just happily sit right in the middle and arbitrage between the two.
Jeff Bullas
00:11:15 – 00:11:24
Wow. So um is there any filter you use to actually stop? Uh I suppose.
Jeff Bullas
00:11:26 – 00:11:53
Yeah. So if you go, OK. So I’m, I’m looking for good flights and suddenly I turn up at a dodgy site and I buy a product and the website doesn’t, it’s a scam site. It’s a spam site. It’s like it’s really, um, not offering a product at all. It takes your credit card details, takes your money and disappears. How do you protect against that?
Neil Emeigh
00:11:55 – 00:12:38
I would assume those companies probably have some form of automated checks to, to check on the legitimacy of, of the sites that they’re listing via, you know, are they listed on a business directory? Are they the reviews online? You scraped reviews. So they see that. Oh wow, different sites are talking about it. Different authority websites are talking about it pointing to it. It must be legitimate. And then that’s also where you start seeing, they build up their own internal reviews like customers on kayak or booking can leave a review and then they can say, oh wow, someone must have had a successful purchase, a successful experience, they reviewed it. Therefore, we can trust this listing more with an update. You start having some assurances.
Jeff Bullas
00:12:38 – 00:13:13
Ok. So, what you can do is by, even though you’re still using the proxy, for example, or incognito, let’s say Boxy BPN, you can go uh let’s go and check the reviews within that um channel, you know, the proxy channel. Um you go to a site and you can see, well, these guys actually are offering a good service. So in other words, you can see everything as long as you actually um rigorous in terms of how you use the web to actually check them out. Is that correct?
Neil Emeigh
00:13:14 – 00:14:01
If, if you’re doing this as a consumer to check out like a scam site, yes, it’d be on you to, to verify if you think it’s legitimate. I’m sure there’s tools out there that help with that. I was answering it more from a perspective of like how does a kayak ensure that what it lists? It’s not listing a bunch of spam ultimately. So typically, well, even this, I speculate, is not quite, quite true. So you can, as a consumer, trust those big brands like Kayak and booking.com Trivago to give legitimate listings. What? And you probably don’t need to use a proxy in most cases. Although I’ve seen cases and articles written where the same thing they’re tracking you and what they’ll do is if they know you’re about to purchase or, or you have a certain buying pattern,
Neil Emeigh
00:14:02 – 00:14:26
What a kayak will do is if a flight is typically, let’s say $100 or rental car is $100 they’ll make it $100 and $4 and they’ll take that $4 margin. Which if you think at the scale that there’s that they’re helping facilitate $4 is incredible, I mean, you know, millions of transactions and yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s where our proxy could, could provide some value there,
Jeff Bullas
00:14:27 – 00:15:11
right? Ok. So um let’s wind back now. Yeah, you, you have been doing the nine news? Ok. So you talk about the sort of things you were doing in your college life? Um, so let’s wind back to college and you’re in Nebraska, right? Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. So, how did you get into online digital business? Because you, you, you’re gone from being a high school student to a college student, you’re going? So, what was the motivation to go? I want to start an online business.
Neil Emeigh
00:15:12 – 00:16:01
Mhm. My, my first dollar I made, I think I was 14, maybe 15. Um, it was online. I made my first dollar online in 1415, which is 15 years ago. This is in 2009. Jeez. Yeah, 2000, 2009. I think it would be, um, it’s way, way back when, um, and the dollar I made was, like, writing an seo article on Fiver or fr.com. That’s a pretty big freelancing site. And, uh, so I was doing things in high school. Well, I was in middle school at the time of, kind of, in this area of seo internet marketing and I just kind of kept playing with idea after idea after idea. And, and there a lot of, I mean, it, I would make $100 here or $1000 here. $100 here. And,
Neil Emeigh
00:16:01 – 00:16:29
and it wasn’t until, I mean, I just tried 100 ideas. 200 probably. And until the end of my college was in my last semester. And that um III, I like this quote from Mark Cuban on Shark Tank one time. He said, every entrepreneur has luck at some point in their life. And I, that this is, this is, this was, this was my moment. I think I have luck or enough attempts. I don’t know, one could speculate. But I, I tried my
Neil Emeigh
00:16:29 – 00:17:01
199th idea that my last semester of college because I was getting pressure from the parents naturally saying, hey, do you have a real job lined up Neil? I’m like, oh, yeah, I know I’m working on my internet marketing stuff and my ses stuff. And I had three months essentially until I graduated. And then, uh you know, I should have a job by then. And within that three months I launched this new, our proxy product and in those three months we made 100 K revenue, as I said, year one was 1.1 million and the rest is history from there.
Jeff Bullas
00:17:02 – 00:17:08
So, basically you were very switched on to uh creating a digital business.
Neil Emeigh
00:17:08 – 00:17:11
Yes. Yes. Very, very much.
Jeff Bullas
00:17:11 – 00:17:29
So, what was the inspiration for that? Because a lot of people do, you were actually starting to do a side hustle when you were 14, you were doing a side hustle when you were in college as well. So we’re talking, you know, a 9 to 10 year, I suppose, exploration. Um and adventure into. How do I make money online? Is that correct?
Neil Emeigh
00:17:29 – 00:17:32
Exactly. And those are the terms I was searching for, you know, how to make money online. Yeah.
Jeff Bullas
00:17:33 – 00:17:41
Right. So, you stumbled in the proxies? Um, he kissed a lot of frogs along the way, I’m sure. Yeah.
Neil Emeigh
00:17:41 – 00:17:43
Absolutely. Yeah,
Jeff Bullas
00:17:44 – 00:17:50
because the promises and the riches of making money online go from the absurd to the ridiculous. And
Neil Emeigh
00:17:51 – 00:18:20
every man in those early days when I was 15 or so, that’s when I was most susceptible, especially at that age to just believe all this crap. And so I would buy at the time, like internet marketing was kind of hard hot thing. And there were all kinds of gurus who would post like guides, ebook guides saying, buy my guide and I’ll teach you how to make $10,000 a month. And it was so convincing. I bought Guide after guide after guide after guide and 99% of them didn’t make me a penny. But I still believe,
Jeff Bullas
00:18:21 – 00:18:49
yeah. So I totally get that. So I was a little bit older than you when I started, you know, how do I make money? Um And this is the age and it was in 2009 when I started blogging, right? So social media is rising. We’re having a ball. Um I really like I was, I was in between jobs code for fucking unemployed. Um
Neil Emeigh
00:18:50 – 00:18:52
And so you started blogging.
Jeff Bullas
00:18:57 – 00:19:42
So, here we are. We’re like, OK, we’re blogging and I was just writing, started writing about social media and I became known as a social media expert in 2009, 1011, 12. Right. Anyway, I ended up speaking at conferences. So the thing was um I maybe wasn’t searching how to make money online, but maybe it was actually, um but I started creating content and then I ended up attracting a lot of attention with 5 million visitors a year within two or three years. Um But there’s a lot of scams online. It’s like you said, you got, like you bought all these e books, you bought these guides, you bought courses. Like, so the reality is um
Jeff Bullas
00:19:42 – 00:20:23
uh for me, I was following curiosity, I was curious about social media. Um And uh I started making money by getting paid to go to conferences and I started making a little bit of money consulting and paid for speaking and I sold some ebooks. So, um but I love your journey in terms of what you’re trying to do. Because for me, you know, as I watched the rise of social media, they were basically stealing your audience to sell to them and then started restricting your audience. So you actually couldn’t reach them because the algorithms designed for their maximizing their advertising and minimize for you to reach your audience,
Neil Emeigh
00:20:24 – 00:20:28
clicking through your links and going to your website.
Jeff Bullas
00:20:29 – 00:20:42
So, so you, you got into proxies. Now, I’m really intrigued. How did you, this nine years ago? So we’re talking 2013, 14 sort of times, right? And 15,
Neil Emeigh
00:20:43 – 00:20:45
15 and 15. Yeah.
Jeff Bullas
00:20:45 – 00:21:28
OK. This is the rise of algorithms right back then back then. This is where algorithms by Google, Facebook, Twitter, especially Facebook started to rise. So you’re battling what I call online visibility challenges. So how did, so how did you grow your business out of that? Because the big guys, the global social media platforms and the you know, search engine platforms, Google, because that’s really all there is mainly um how did you break through and get attention back then? How did you get your marketing? How did you get yourself out there?
Neil Emeigh
00:21:29 – 00:22:03
Seo, ironically enough, about search engines. Um my, my, the first, our brand now is Rail by but our first brand was blazing. Seo, terrible, terrible name in hindsight. But at the time, it made sense because I was super involved with, with uh Seo, that’s how I started using proxies and stuff. And as you talk about the algorithms like back then, especially even I mean, when I started 15 years ago, Seo was a matter of posting a few comments on a blog with your link to your website back link
Neil Emeigh
00:22:04 – 00:22:47
for the marketers out there and your website would go to page one in a night. Now, Google is a little smarter than that and I see that as spam and they don’t rank you. And so I was doing things like that at scale, making back links at scale and you need a lot of proxies and servers to do that. And so, uh I knew Seoiii, I knew people. I, I was in forums in Skype groups and, and, and I kept running the same problem everyone else was, which is all the proxy providers or these kind of just like sketchy dudes in some, some questionable countries that you’d be like, oh, do I really wanna be using their services from this guy who won’t talk to me? And he doesn’t, he has this like a handle online
Neil Emeigh
00:22:48 – 00:23:08
and, and, and they would go offline and they just wouldn’t care about it. So it was just one of those pain points. And I was like, ok, well, this gotta be a better way. Let me try. I knew nothing about it. I knew nothing about system administration. Didn’t know anything about proxy and I just posted a job on el at the time now. And I said, oh, I need someone to make a proxy for me. And some freelancer said, yeah, I’ll do it. And,
Neil Emeigh
00:23:08 – 00:23:29
and then I just went to my seo groups and I just said, hey, guys, I got proxies now you want to buy for me and they’re like, well, we’re not loyal to them and they kind of suck. So why not? And it just kind of took off from there. So the name Blazing Seo is at least resonant to the early customers that got me off the ground and then we kind of expanded into different markets soon thereafter.
Jeff Bullas
00:23:29 – 00:23:54
Yeah, look, I totally get se I so uh we’re very focused on s er uh I just create a lot of content. I got a lot of inbound links. I got links from New York Times, Forbes entrepreneurs, right? So um I just create a lot of content and at the end of the day I built Google Authority. So I think we’ve got an authority ranking of about 8182.
Neil Emeigh
00:23:55 – 00:23:56
Yeah, that’s incredible.
Jeff Bullas
00:23:57 – 00:24:27
Which is good, right? So it’s basically like building an asset really, isn’t it? So it’s a digit. I call it a digital asset which a lot of people just don’t get their uh they get on Instagram, they want to be an influencer and they just post that shit and uh yeah, exactly. So what I call it, I call it superficial content, not what I call content that actually changes people’s lives um might change their dress but not their lives. Um So, so I’m intrigued by this. So, were you very technical?
Neil Emeigh
00:24:28 – 00:25:15
Yes, my degree is computer science. Um But I’ll, I’ll be the first to say not to speak ill of the tea. I love my teachers, but in my opinion, uh old school education, this is my soapbox old school education and in the current university systems, uh uh what I learned in computer science, what we were taught and the theories and principles and et cetera was nothing than just doing six months of my own program. I’ve been programming since I was 15 and like, what I would just learn doing real World things was more than I learned in four years of, of, of college. And so, yeah, I had, I had the technical background, but as soon as what proxies are, it requires more of a, not a programming, a developer, it requires system administration now called DEV ops these days.
Neil Emeigh
00:25:15 – 00:25:42
And I didn’t know anything about that. Um And so that’s more like in your command line, Linux. Uh I, I was like, I’m a Windows guy and so I posted that job on ELance upwork II. I was technical enough to know how to communicate what I needed. I was technical enough to know how to manage technical people. Um But I didn’t know how to write the code or anything. So from day one of the company, I haven’t really written code ever since in the last nine years.
Jeff Bullas
00:25:43 – 00:25:51
Oh, I totally agree with you about education. But I was um I did an education degree as I became a teacher for five or six years.
Neil Emeigh
00:25:52 – 00:25:54
If I insulted you, I
Jeff Bullas
00:25:55 – 00:25:55
hear
Neil Emeigh
00:25:55 – 00:25:55
you.
Jeff Bullas
00:25:55 – 00:26:28
But no, no, I, I, you don’t insult me at all because the reality is that you actually learn by doing, not by sitting in a classroom right end of story. So, no, I am. We’re singing from the same hymn sheet here Neil. So, the reality for me is, is that a lot of the, you know, uh, teaching and curriculum, even for high school, even in universities set from on high by people that have ever, actually never left school
Neil Emeigh
00:26:30 – 00:26:32
academia. Theory. Yeah.
Jeff Bullas
00:26:33 – 00:26:50
So, I don’t speak ill of them and they can actually go and write lovely books and everything else. But actually, have they done something that really, um, has been testing the fire of reality and business and especially in the digital world because the digital world has really moved us forward quite quickly, hasn’t it?
Neil Emeigh
00:26:51 – 00:26:54
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Rapidly than schools can keep up with.
Jeff Bullas
00:26:54 – 00:27:33
Yeah. Yep. So, uh, for me, uh, to, on the same page I really want, ok, you can have all the ideas in the world you can go to get, you know, 234 degrees, get a phd phd is, is just, uh, an acronym for called File Higher and Deeper. And I’m sorry, professors out there have a phd. I have no disrespect but, um, actually what we need to do is we need to go out in the real world and actually try and make a difference by doing stuff, building stuff. Um, and you’ve done that? Ok. So
Jeff Bullas
00:27:35 – 00:28:38
tell us about how proxy works your product. How do you make money out of proxies? Do you sell a service with a monthly subscription? Uh, tell us how you would use your proxy. Um And then the other question would be, how do you find your customers? So let’s, we can do it either way. How do you find your customers? Um How do you make money out of your product? Because we’re talking to digital entrepreneurs wannabes that actually go, I really would like to do something online. I don’t know what to do. Um, I’ve got a computing science degree. Um and what you’ve done is, you know, just raw and real and fantastic. So you said that you discovered your customers through Blazing Seo which was originally your first business. So how do you make money out of, you know, Raboy Proxies, right.
Neil Emeigh
00:28:39 – 00:29:26
Yeah. Yeah. So there’s two primary products we offer. There’s again, the, the, the, the foundational infrastructure layer is a proxy or we lease one IP address for a monthly fee ultimately. And, and most people at the scale, but we have a minimum of a five purchase quantity. Um And so what we’re trying to target is people doing larger things. Our, our main target audience of people who are doing data scraping. So we have our enterprise customers who will have 50,000 IP addresses that way they can go scrape, let’s say my example of Hilton, they can go scrape that Hilton sites and rotate between 50,000 IP So Hilton doesn’t see just one IP address loading all their.
Neil Emeigh
00:29:26 – 00:29:59
And so then when you go up a layer, there’s the scraping layer which we also sell, which is an API that people companies develop. It’s pretty simple where, where you tell us what URL you want to get scraped and we provide back the html of an unblocked and clean page. Ultimately. And again, customers at this, we have some customers doing hundreds of millions a month of, of pages, particularly one of the greatest industries right now, is e-commerce by far. People want to know what the
Neil Emeigh
00:29:59 – 00:30:25
price of products are. People want to know what the reviews of products are. People want to know if the items are in stock, people want to know what the shipping options are. People want to know what related items are and they’re just consuming these, these companies are just consuming this data at such a high scale to then build in their own analytics models and so on and so forth and that’s just charged per scrape. So like one scrape costs like 0.0018 pennies per, per scrape, but the most expensive tier,
Jeff Bullas
00:30:26 – 00:30:34
right? Ok. So where, where’s your, where’s your target market then? Really in terms of, is it larger? Is it enterprise
Neil Emeigh
00:30:34 – 00:30:51
is? No, no, we, we’re kind of doing a, I wouldn’t say rebranding but I think it’s, it’s extreme enough to maybe call it that. But repositioning as a company uh in the last two or three years I made the mistake of trying to be everything to everyone.
Neil Emeigh
00:30:52 – 00:31:21
When I first started the company for the first years, I didn’t know anything. I didn’t really have a mentor and I didn’t know anything about business and I was just kind of just doing it because it was fun. I was learning money was coming in. It was like, yeah, this is cool. This is fun. This is let’s do this, let’s do this. And then I started reading too many guru books, people from academia, people, not again, like people who haven’t built a business writing books. I’m like, oh those, those ideas make sense. Let me go implement these ideas. And, and so in our middle period of our company leading up to like now ish,
Neil Emeigh
00:31:22 – 00:31:56
I tried being, I don’t know how to say it, everything to everyone. Our company, our brand, kind of became like everyone else. And so we repositioned ourselves recently to not try targeting enterprise. We’re just letting them go. Yeah, there’s a lot of money there, but I personally just don’t like enterprise sale cycles there, months and months and months and then they don’t close and they have, they have different uh requirements. And so we’re targeting more towards the S and B consumer market now these days, particularly around e-commerce, scraping but scraping broadly. The ecommerce scraping makes up probably the biggest,
Jeff Bullas
00:31:56 – 00:32:06
right? So, so you, so your tier and your pricing and how much per month will that typically look good? Is it like, um, tell us about that?
Neil Emeigh
00:32:07 – 00:32:22
Oh, yeah, like, well, 100 100 A P is 100 proxies would be around 100 and $50 a month. For example, um, that can get up to, you know, 50,000, you can get down to 80 cents an A P and, and anywhere in between.
Jeff Bullas
00:32:23 – 00:32:29
Ok. So what sort of company, what sort of things would a company that wants to use proxy? What are they wanting to do?
Neil Emeigh
00:32:30 – 00:32:57
Uh It’s the, then I give the example of ecommerce. We’ve talked about flights. Um, another big one that’s kind of an app to a lot of businesses is just lead data. Um, scraping, I mean, you have to get creative but scraping websites, let’s say you’re a recruiting agency. Ok. There’s, there’s, you can help people find talent. Well, you can pay for like a linkedin uh recruiter which is gets pretty expensive one and two
Neil Emeigh
00:32:58 – 00:33:26
that they don’t have like real time notifications of certain positions coming up. And then what if you also want data from? Indeed. And then from, well, Monsters and an old one, but there’s so many job boards and, and regional job boards as well too. So as a recruiter, it would be valuable to me if I had real time updates of, let’s say I, I have, let’s say a developer that I’m trying to place in the opposite way and I, I want to place him in a job. Well, I’d want real time updates of all job postings
Neil Emeigh
00:33:27 – 00:33:48
That said, hey, we’re looking for a developer with these skill sets. Well, that’s where scraping comes in. You can, scraping is a verb. So the software loads indeed, let’s say once a day for a certain search term developer and then if anything pops up, it would just notify the recruiter. Hey, there’s five of my listings today. Go check it out and then you had this constant feed without having to do anything,
Jeff Bullas
00:33:49 – 00:33:52
right? So basically your automatic lead generation.
Neil Emeigh
00:33:52 – 00:34:35
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There’s no Google Maps is another big use case where when you go to Google, you type in restaurants in New York, it shows your whole listing of, I mean, there’s just, you know, 100,000 restaurants. Well, you can use software to basically get the phone numbers, the websites, you can even go visit the website, get their social media, get their email, put that all into an Excel file. And now you have 100,000, if I’m a, let’s say, a food distributor or a food software that I’m trying to sell the latest POS system, I now have 100,000 contacts that I can then input into my outreach software or otherwise. And do that instead of manually going one site to the one site, one site.
Jeff Bullas
00:34:36 – 00:34:56
Well, and that’s basically building lead generation of scale, isn’t it? So that’s what you’re doing. Yeah. So, uh, so basically you can use that to generate, uh, feed a spreadsheet which then you can use to do outreach out of doing Google ads or something or Facebook ads. Is that what you’re saying as well?
Neil Emeigh
00:34:57 – 00:35:08
Yeah, you could, however, people would want to feed their sheet from there, they could read, doing their own email software. They could import the emails into Facebook, which is gonna allow you to target those emails then. Yeah,
Jeff Bullas
00:35:09 – 00:35:21
very cool. So, um, so basically you’re trying to uh give some attention to the small guy. I sort of help the small guys beat the big guys. Is that right?
Neil Emeigh
00:35:22 – 00:35:58
Yeah, I bet it gives you a leg up. If you, if you take the time to try automating some things, it’s, you’re never gonna be a big company by manually doing the same thing as them. So you gotta be creative, you gotta be innovative and identify as you’re, as you’re doing your day to day business processes or even things that you haven’t identified yet. Like the recruiter needing a real time feed. Ask yourself, huh? What if I had a software that just did this for me and sent me this or did this action for me every day? Like clockwork day after day, week after week, month after month and you can get a competitive edge against your competitors.
Jeff Bullas
00:35:59 – 00:36:05
Yeah. So, um, are you seeing the proxy industry growing quite a lot?
Neil Emeigh
00:36:06 – 00:36:56
Mhm. Yeah. Too much. So, if you ask me, it’s, uh, when I started the company there was probably, as I said, there was this kind of like some shady guys in basements somewhere, I assumed. And, uh, there’s probably, yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Um, and, and there’s probably maybe four or five total companies that you could, like, kind of buy from. And now there’s still like, it’s still relatively small industry in this term, there’s maybe like 100 legitimate companies, but 100 is enough that it’s commoditized it to the point where because we’re an infrastructure layer, there’s little that can differentiate between one company and the next besides things like good service and your brand and, and your values and, and we have to try connecting with customers in that way which, you know, just like Nike versus Adidas. It’s a challenge.
Jeff Bullas
00:36:57 – 00:37:25
Yeah, so, so you mentioned before your target audience. So is it more providing information to ecommerce companies? For example, like it could be a cycling website that wants to actually communicate with people that uh wanna buy bikes and, and bike accessories, for example, like is it more it just right across the board in ecommerce? Is that your main market?
Neil Emeigh
00:37:26 – 00:37:49
Um Yeah, if you use the example of a bike shop owner like my, where I’d be thinking like, how could that bike shop owner use data scraping to help their business. Um One thing would probably be something like scraping, scraping social media or other maybe like classified listings sites or, or I mean, anywhere you could find data where people either selling,
Neil Emeigh
00:37:50 – 00:38:30
selling bike parts or selling bikes and, or looking for like I’m looking for this bike. And then again, day after day after day, if you find some sites that show that like looking for bikes, you can now even automate the outreach. Hey, we’re a bike store in your city. Um We have a great collection of bikes. Why don’t you just give us a call and you don’t have to think about it and just do it on repeat. Um So yeah, when you ask that, like, um for, for, for small business owners, um the ones who probably get the most value would be companies who are already like a data based company who let’s say they have a product that helps. Let’s say you wanna, let’s say you the consumer want to
Neil Emeigh
00:38:31 – 00:39:05
start an Amazon product business you wanna sell, I don’t know, a cup or something on, on Amazon, you, there’s, there’s a lot of businesses that are fun. Now that Amazon analytics, like it, tells you what cups are selling best, what colors of cups should you sell? What kind of material should those cups be? They show charts and widgets and so on for those companies are probably our prime target because they’re the ones who need to be scraping. Amazon. All the competitors are saying, OK, we see that blue is the most dominant color. That’s because they scraped a million listings to be able to determine that.
Jeff Bullas
00:39:05 – 00:39:23
Yeah. OK. So the next question because I’m curious about the intersection of A I with marketing and humanity is A I helping you or not helping you. And how do you use A I? If you are using it?
Neil Emeigh
00:39:24 – 00:40:07
II, I would have thought that A I would have helped us faster than what we’re seeing right now. Um And I, I think the reason it’s not yet is because um A I to create your own models, your own A I models ML that’s not to the mainstream yet. It’s moving in that direction. Meta has their open source A I. So then you can take that open source and you can start building your own models with that and to build a model, you need data. But Right. Right. Our educational system there isn’t enough, there aren’t enough A I engineers and ML engineers out there to be building this for companies. So therefore small SM BS and even enterprise companies,
Neil Emeigh
00:40:07 – 00:40:27
they’re not building their own models yet. So they’re not coming to us. But I, that’s the direction, that’s the direction when the world is gonna go, people will be building it to be so easy to build your own model. It’ll just say just give me whatever data you want. I will, I will structure it. I will figure out I’ll make sense of it. Just feed me data and that’s where I think scraping will come in.
Neil Emeigh
00:40:27 – 00:40:46
We’ll just start. You go to a website that has scrapers. Do we get the HTML, the full html, which includes your stock, your price, your colors, et cetera. You see that whole HTML source code into your, this A I engine of yours. And it just makes sense for you. And I think it’s just a matter of time before it gets there, but we don’t quite see it yet.
Jeff Bullas
00:40:46 – 00:41:06
In other words, you, if you had a lot of data and information um trap, OK. So would that be traffic coming to your website? In other words, the IP addresses that are coming and you can identify who they are and then make sense of that to help you. Um in terms of identifying where the opportunity who’s actually looking for you.
Neil Emeigh
00:41:07 – 00:41:10
Sorry, can you repeat that? Can I start again?
Jeff Bullas
00:41:10 – 00:41:23
What I mean by that is? OK. So let’s say I’ve got 2 million visitors a year. They come into my website with a proxy data striping, help me identify who’s coming to my website and it makes sense. Uh
Neil Emeigh
00:41:23 – 00:42:02
No, not, not, it’s more on the reverse. So when someone uses proxies or scraping, we’re going to another site. So literally like we, we scrape, let’s say we, we, we literally scrape a Hilton Hotels website or, or Amazon or Walmart or something. So we’re going to their site and then grabbing all the information we see on the page and then we send all that information to our customer. So our customer is just sitting there with an A I model in the future and it’ll just say, give me any data you can give and then we’re just feeding and feeding and feeding and feeding and feeding. And their model is just trained to make sense of what’s being fed to it.
Jeff Bullas
00:42:02 – 00:42:16
Ok. So what we’re saying, you’re saying is that uh you’re going, ah, this is where I think my target audience is. And this so go and scrape it for me and then let’s market to that by using that information.
Neil Emeigh
00:42:17 – 00:42:53
Yeah. From a lead, the lead gen perspective you can. Yeah. Yeah. If you think of like, I mean, one interesting case is like Crunch base. Crunch base shows all company information. It shows which companies have raised money. So if I’m a, I’m a VC, if I’m a consultant, I mean, so many, so many different fields that could value knowing when a company has raised money. Well, now you can just scrape Crunch base, scrape, scrape, scrape, tell me who’s raised money to me and then just feed that back to a consultant who then could reach out. Hi. I’m so, and so I see you just raised money. Can I offer my services to you? And you’re getting fed to it in real time.
Jeff Bullas
00:42:55 – 00:43:04
So in terms of what you’re doing, um, you’ve obviously learned a lot along the way. So you started with like, um,
Jeff Bullas
00:43:06 – 00:43:41
How to make money online was maybe one of your first searches back when you were 1415 years old. So today, uh, what have you learned along the way in terms of creating an online business? What would be your top tips as someone I’m not saying, trying to create a proxy server business or proxy business. Um in terms of building a, a side hustle or a business in the online world, what have you learned that you could tell our audience? Um In other words, some of your three or four top tips.
Neil Emeigh
00:43:42 – 00:44:21
Three or four. Wow. I’m just going like w nine years um stay, stay, stay one, stay authentic. Uh I painfully learned that um I tried to be someone I am not, I tried the company to be something it was not by they, we’re, you know, professional people who target enterprise companies and it’s just like I’m not that I was like, I just want to talk to a consumer who pays me $2 a month and I enjoy that. I don’t care. I don’t need a $2 million contract. I need 2 $2. So remain authentic, be authentic to who you are and what company you’re trying to build um to what you’re building, you should be very passionate about. Um We, we’ve tried spinning off other verticals
Neil Emeigh
00:44:21 – 00:45:00
in our space because there’s many because proxies are the infrastructure layer. Um And so there’s many verticals we could spin off to and I realized we were spinning off. Uh I don’t even know why it is just more of like a shiny object syndrome as an entrepreneur my fault. And, and so I distracted the company going here and here and here and here. And, and so II, I use the word focus carefully. I’ve learned a lot about what focus means to me. Um, I don’t want to stimmy innovation, which is what we’ve done the last few years. We tried to be just too bureaucratic and stay, stay in our lane. Um But early on, we’re just going all over the place. So staying focused on what you’re passionate about, I think is, is, is really important.
Neil Emeigh
00:45:01 – 00:45:28
Uh If I think of three or four others um culture has a cliched, cliched answer that what I’ve learned about culture in the last two years, a lot. We lost half our leadership team in turnover last year. Um And that was a culture shift that I knew needed to happen. And what I, what I learned about the word culture, you can read about it, you can go to conferences about it, you go to your webinars about it, but you don’t know it,
Neil Emeigh
00:45:28 – 00:45:55
it’s something you know in yourself. You can’t, you can’t logically understand culture. It’s an emotional and even spiritual way to understand who our company is. How is it a reflection of me who are the people here? Are they, are they, do we share the same vision? Are we, do we have the same character? Do we share the same value system? And you can, you, you should and you spend logical time writing down. OK. Yeah, I think this person does this person but
Neil Emeigh
00:45:55 – 00:46:24
uh for me, it’s just clicked in the last two years of just asking those questions often. What is this? What I am sure of is that the right company is what I’m trying to build. And I just asked that question enough and eventually felt it. And now I feel it. And so to any entrepreneur trying to start out there, don’t be hard on yourself that it may not click or maybe you think it’s clicking and it’s not working, just keep asking the question and eventually you’ll, you’ll get, you’ll, you’ll feel it yourself. I believe
Jeff Bullas
00:46:24 – 00:46:34
That’s really cool. Um So I interviewed the guy that actually rescued Harley Davidson in the USA, a guy called Ken.
Neil Emeigh
00:46:35 – 00:46:41
Yeah, sure, sure. What did he have to say about it? It is obviously a cultural,
Jeff Bullas
00:46:42 – 00:46:47
it’s very cultural and he also, uh
Jeff Bullas
00:46:50 – 00:47:36
and Harley Davidson is very visceral. In other words, you’re at a set of stoplights and you’ve got a Harley Davis next to you and they’re blipping the throttle and they’re making a noise. Right. Yeah. And that’s very cool. And, um, I’ve got a jaguar F type and I drive with the windows open and I blip the throttle and I, I’m on the paddles and I’m having fun listening to the noise of my car. Right. So, and when you’re trying to reach your audience, what’s the noise you’re trying to make? And it was really fascinating. Um, and uh, he got asked questions like at a conference, he going, ok, so who’s your biggest competitor? He said, golfers
Jeff Bullas
00:47:37 – 00:48:44
and the CEO was asking, I was going, why the fuck are you asking about golfers? He said, well, I’m asking someone to buy my bike and spend a weekend riding. In other words, I, they are using the bike, they were using the weekend to actually escape a bad marriage, um being bored, whatever it is, right? So, um so making a noise is about being noticed. Ok? One number two is uh so he actually said to them, uh he said you need to write down five keywords that actually describe what you are about. And uh some of those keywords were uh freedom adventure, right? Yeah. Um and essentially belonging to a tribe as well. So it was really fascinating in terms of trying to get the essence of building those keywords that everything in your messaging you’re talking about, right? So,
Neil Emeigh
00:48:45 – 00:49:06
Yeah, and that’s what I, if I may, that’s you know, I’m resonating so much because when I talk about, there was our internal culture that had shifted, but then our external and I kept saying we tried being everything to everyone. We pulled up our website and compared it to our top 10 competitors. It was just like a copy and paste. We’re all doing the exact same thing. And if you go to our website now today,
Neil Emeigh
00:49:07 – 00:49:31
it’s just, it’s night and day different because it returns back to who we are. One and, and two, the noise we’re trying to make. We’re trying to say like, hey, we screw the corporate hoo ha that everyone else is trying to do. If you want to work with a company that values human relationships, you can work with us. If you want some boring transactional robots to work with, go work with them. We don’t want your business and it’s just like a period and we’re going to attract the people who want that
Neil Emeigh
00:49:31 – 00:49:55
and then the other people are like, oh, I don’t know. That’s a little great. I don’t want to work with them and I tried working with them for way too long over the last years because I wanted as much money as possible. But I believe that what it created is we’re everything to everyone which means we were no, we were nothing to nobody. Now we are something to somebody. Yeah. And those, those six words really? Yeah. Stick with me.
Jeff Bullas
00:49:56 – 00:50:49
Yeah. Yeah. It’s um uh a book that’s actually quite affected me. And um from the reality is that, uh he wanted to create a tribe he wanted and he started at, you know, inviting people to have doughnuts and coffee at the local Harley Davidson agency. Then they brought their friends, then they created, you know, not gangs because that’s what the problem was with Harley Davis. It was gangs but created a, you know, people that want to go and ride together and then they talk to everyone else. So it’s like this cohort of people that want freedom, they want adventure, they wanna be belonging to someone. Um And it’s, it was fascinating and it really resonated with me. And uh so that’s why I was asking like, you know, what’s the culture, how does it affect?
Jeff Bullas
00:50:50 – 00:51:09
And when you’re selling an information product versus a, you know, a Harley Davidson motorbike, I, I still believe that there’s uh you can make a noise within that as well. So, and that’s, that’s the fun actually trying to discover and unearth that really.
Neil Emeigh
00:51:09 – 00:51:11
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Jeff Bullas
00:51:12 – 00:51:34
So I wanna ask you one final question, Neil. So you’re a little bit younger than me. Uh You’ve obviously been exploring life. You’ve been at college, you’ve followed uh a beautiful lady to the other side of the world. From Nebraska to the Netherlands. Yeah.
Jeff Bullas
00:51:36 – 00:51:44
So what brings you deep joy? What would you do every day if you actually we were paid for it
Neil Emeigh
00:51:45 – 00:52:21
easy. When we talk about the cohorts of customers, I finally aligned my interest, what, where I want to take the company and that it’s kind of two words, but they can be interpreted as one which is learning and curiosity. And there’s a, there’s a, there’s a psychological test by me, Check sent Meha the guy who wrote Flow the book Flow. Um And there’s a website called via Character Strength. So encourage any entrepreneur especially to go take this test. It takes 10 minutes and it tells you what your virtues are as a, as a, as a person based on
Jeff Bullas
00:52:21 – 00:52:22
which one is that.
Neil Emeigh
00:52:23 – 00:53:02
It’s called the Via Character Strengths Test. I believe that’s, it’s called and there’s a book about it and there’s a, there’s a huge American. Uh there’s, like the top American positive psychology experts wrote this book together and it’s really great. And then they created this online tool to create this test and I’ve taken this test maybe four or five times over the last 67 years. It’s always consistent because they separate curiosity and learning in different buckets. But those are always at the top, like three or four, and always at different points in my life when different things are going on. I take the test and still those two remain at the top. And so
Neil Emeigh
00:53:02 – 00:53:20
What I want rail to represent is, not a proxy company, not a scraping company. I don’t want to attract customers who just need a transaction for proxies and scraping. I wanna work with customers and employees who wanna learn and be curious with the world and I wanna build products that, that, that, that mark.
Jeff Bullas
00:53:21 – 00:54:04
Love it. Be curious and keep learning. Yeah. Yeah. Totally get that. That’s, um, for me, um, one of my, I suppose I’m a fanboy of Joseph Campbell who wrote The Hero’s Journey. And he, I say this time and time again, too many times. But um he had a saying that we, none of us really have a purpose that’s actually built in. We just actually have, he said, just follow your bliss. In other words, lean into your curiosity until it becomes compelling and then it becomes an obsession that will take you everywhere.
Neil Emeigh
00:54:06 – 00:54:13
Yeah. Yeah. Well, so goosebumps feeling that and putting myself in that.
Jeff Bullas
00:54:13 – 00:54:17
So mate, I, I follow my curiosity. I don’t follow the money anymore.
Neil Emeigh
00:54:18 – 00:54:32
Yeah. As a host that it shows, I mean, you’re learning from people. I love it. I admire that and putting yourself out there and just asking questions about topics you may not know anything about. I did. I assume you didn’t know much about proxies before today.
Jeff Bullas
00:54:33 – 00:54:40
I knew enough to actually ask you a few questions. That’s what I mean. But for me, I’m as curious as shit.
Neil Emeigh
00:54:41 – 00:54:44
Yeah. Yeah. You’re a great host because of that.
Jeff Bullas
00:54:45 – 00:55:30
So, um I spend half my day reading and, uh, some, and I take notes and then I write a journal and sometimes I feel like I’m not doing anything because I’m actually just sitting on my arse, um, rating and I sit in the most beautiful sunroom at the back of our home and I read and I take notes and then I write out of that. Um, and I read the most fabulous book recently called Poor Charlie’s Almanac, which is uh Charlie Munger, the right hand man of Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway, which is worth just a few billion dollars.
Neil Emeigh
00:55:30 – 00:55:35
I know it’s in my backyard in Nebraska, by the way. Yeah.
Jeff Bullas
00:55:35 – 00:56:01
And I wrote, I wrote a post recently called A Secret Guilty Pleasure, which is, and that Secret Guilty Pleasure is actually reading. And I feel like when I’m doing that, I’m having way too much fun and I’m learning way too much and I’m actually wasting my time. That’s how I feel. Um But the reality is out of that. Um
Jeff Bullas
00:56:04 – 00:57:09
You by being curious about life and reflecting is you can live a considered life, which actually I think is pretty amazing. And it sounds to me like you’ve lived an amazingly considered life. You haven’t followed the pathway most followed by most. You, you like, yes, you like the guys, you know the knights of the Holy Grail, right? They went into the forest where there was no path in front of them and that’s what you’ve chosen, which is amazing. Yeah, you’ve created your own path and I would encourage everyone who’s listening is to your power is in your individuality and then just create your own path and don’t listen to the naysayers. Tell them to piss off because your genius lies within you and genie means locked within. Right. And you’ve done that, which is pretty amazing. Right.
Jeff Bullas
00:57:10 – 00:57:17
So, yeah, but Charlie Bunger has been described by his Children as two legs sticking out of a book.
Neil Emeigh
00:57:18 – 00:57:22
Wow. Ok, cool. Yeah, I like that.
Jeff Bullas
00:57:23 – 00:57:33
So, mate, it’s been and as well, I say mate in Australia, you say buddy in America, I don’t know what they say, the Netherlands, what do they say in the Netherlands?
Neil Emeigh
00:57:35 – 00:57:36
Not yet. Anyways.
Jeff Bullas
00:57:36 – 00:57:59
Yeah. Yeah. So um Neil, it’s been an absolute pleasure buddy to actually have a chat and um discover more about proxies. Um I’m a little bit wiser by speaking to a curious dude that has moved from Nebraska to the Netherlands and um that is brave and obviously curious. So it’s fantastic.
Neil Emeigh
00:58:00 – 00:58:02
Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.
Jeff Bullas
00:58:03 – 00:58:05
So, thank you. Um It’s been an absolute pleasure.
Neil Emeigh
00:58:06 – 00:58:07
Yeah, mine too.