Jared Rosenthal is a trailblazing entrepreneur and former healthcare CEO who redefined success by embracing unconventional ideas. After a decade in nonprofit healthcare and serving as CEO of Amerigroup Illinois, where he managed over 400 employees, Jared took a bold leap in 2007, leaving the corporate world to launch his own venture.
With no outside funding, he created Health Street, starting with the now-famous “Who’s Your Daddy” mobile DNA testing truck, which captured national attention and inspired the VH1 reality show Swab Stories.
He transformed his initial venture into a thriving technology platform, serving over 50,000 companies.
What you will learn
- Discover how leaving a CEO position to start a business with a mobile DNA testing truck led to greater success and innovation.
- Learn how breaking corporate norms and embracing unconventional leadership strategies helped build successful, value-driven teams.
- Explore how to build a modern tech stack for small business success and compete effectively without large enterprise budgets.
- Understand when to leave the corporate world for a startup, and how taking calculated risks can lead to entrepreneurial success.
- Find out how guerrilla marketing strategies, like Jared’s viral “Who’s Your Daddy” truck, can drive growth and capture national attention.
Transcript
Jeff Bullas
00:00:02 – 00:00:26
Hi everyone, and welcome to the Jeff Bullas Show. Today, I have with me Jared Rosenthal
Now, Jared is a trailblazing entrepreneur and former healthcare CEO who redefined success by embracing unconventional ideas. After a decade in nonprofit healthcare and serving as CEO of Amerigroup Illinois, where he managed over 400 employees, Jared took a bold leap in 2007, leaving the corporate world to launch his own venture.
Jeff Bullas
00:00:27 – 00:01:02
With no outside funding, he created Health Street, starting with the now-famous “Who’s Your Daddy” mobile DNA testing truck, which captured national attention and inspired the VH1 reality show Swab Stories.
He transformed his initial venture into a thriving technology platform, serving over 50,000 companies. His journey highlights the power of innovative marketing, calculated risk-taking, and leadership rooted in values.
Jeff Bullas
00:01:03 – 00:01:22
So we’re going to discover how his innovative marking and calculated risk taking, um, led him to success. Jarrod, welcome to the show. It’s great to see your smiling face from the other side of the Pacific or next to the Atlantic in America. I’m in Sydney and you’re in the heart of New York in Manhattan. So great to have you here.
Jared Rosenthal
00:01:22 – 00:01:24
Great to be here. Thank you.
Jeff Bullas
00:01:24 – 00:02:04
So, Jarrod, you’ve been sort of like the healthcare industry for most of your professional career, even though I think your degree at Michigan was even in that space. So, uh, So you worked, what inspired you to get into healthcare? Was it something, was that just what your parents thought would be good for you? Was it your own decision? Because I’m, I’m always curious about um, cause some people sort of follow the path the parents sort of set for them and they sort of go that way, then they say, I’m over this, I want to do something else. I want to do something for myself. So, was there a curiosity about healthcare and health?
Jared Rosenthal
00:02:05 – 00:02:42
Uh, you know what it was? I was really in a bind in college, trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And I really wanted to do things too, you know, as many colleges are more idealistic and wanted to sort of help save the world and that sort of thing. Um, but at the same time I was always into business and I always wanted to, you know, I was selling, uh, baseball autographs when I was in 5th grade, you know, writing away to players and selling for 25 cents to my friends and stuff like that, always starting businesses, worked, you know, my own business through through college, and, uh, you know, it just was the finally hit me that this was a way to synthesize those two sort of um.
Jared Rosenthal
00:02:42 – 00:03:21
The feelings that I had one of you know being in business and running something that um you know made sense, you know, from uh from that standpoint but also a business that’s really a human business and can, can, uh, you know, work with people and hopefully have positive impact so initially I did that as uh you know uh after school started in a nonprofit and then sort of one. To the other side of the world which was the exact same business but it was a for profit publicly traded company so I got to see sort of both ends of uh you know how these things can come together if they can actually come together can something like health care really be done for profit in a way that um uh benefits people.
Jeff Bullas
00:03:22 – 00:03:27
Right, so that corporate, um, career, how long did that last?
Jared Rosenthal
00:03:28 – 00:03:33
Well, I was in, uh, the nonprofit for 10 years and then about 3 years in, uh, in the for-profit.
Jeff Bullas
00:03:34 – 00:04:11
Right. So, um, you obviously must have got to a point. Uh, they said, I want to do something different. And so I love, you know, basically the mobile DNA testing truck, Where’s your daddy? Where did, OK, I’m really curious about where that came from. Love the name, by the way. And obviously got you national attention because it turned into a reality show by the sound of it, um. So what was the inspiration? Was it like a night out with friends? Was it a bolt of lightning? Was it turned up in a dream? How did it happen?
Jared Rosenthal
00:04:12 – 00:04:40
OK, well, so when I started the company, um, you know, we initially just bought a used RV and the idea was really the drug testing so we were gonna go on site and uh test people at factories, you know, pull up in front of the factory they would send the workers out we test them and send them back inside so you know we needed an RV because I had a bathroom that’s where you do the urine collections, right? So, um, initially I put a basically a urine cup, you know, on the side of the RV.
Jared Rosenthal
00:04:40 – 00:05:06
Uh, to sort of advertise the services, you know, I painted it myself at the time I was, um, you know, trying to do everything, you know, bootstrapped, uh, so I was the first worker. I learned how to do the drug testing and the breath alcohol testing and became a trainer and started training people and I would call them up and when when I had a job and say come on out let’s do it, um, and you know people started complaining about the pea cup on the side of the truck. They didn’t want me parking on the block. They didn’t like it.
Jared Rosenthal
00:05:06 – 00:05:34
And at the same time we were doing DNA testing and a lot of people, you know, the calls all the time for paternity testing and I was like, wow this is really interesting how many people are interested and why don’t I put that on the truck, you know, because the pea cup, you know, the workers would see me coming down the block and you know some of them would run when they saw it anyways it’s probably better not to put the advertise that, right? So we just had this joke, you know, around the office, you know, hey, who’s your daddy, you know, because we’re doing paternity tests all the time.
Jared Rosenthal
00:05:34 – 00:06:00
And uh we actually had a contest in the office to vote what to paint on the new, you know, to rebrand the RV. I was outvoted like 10 to 1 and you know it was a privilege of being my business. I said, you know what, I’m doing it anyway, you know, so it’s kind of a calculated, um, risk, I guess, because I knew it was a little risky that maybe it wouldn’t, you know, um, you know, might piss off a few people occasionally it did. I definitely would say and I would
Jeff Bullas
00:06:00 – 00:06:04
that’s an appropriate phrase, piss off a few people that was.
Jared Rosenthal
00:06:05 – 00:06:07
Exactly, exactly.
Jeff Bullas
00:06:07 – 00:06:15
So what was the idea for the urine drug testing? Was that you were in, you worked for companies and said there’s maybe a need for this, or right,
Jared Rosenthal
00:06:15 – 00:06:37
I was doing occupational health like one job which probably didn’t get into that but I was running an occupational health clinic, so. In New York all the uh health care workers have to get drug tested every year and a bunch of other occupational health services and you know I was interested in what happens if a truck driver gets in an accident they need to be tested immediately how does that get done if it’s the middle of the night.
Jared Rosenthal
00:06:37 – 00:07:03
So in starting my own business I thought to myself, what is the hardest part of this industry, this occupational health and drug testing industry that I could, you know, sort of, uh, elbow my way into, uh, because it’s so hard and there’s probably less people doing it and, you know, to also the margins, uh, can be better. So if you, you know, go out in the middle of the night 3 in the morning and there’s an accident on the Cross Bronx Expressway, uh, and the guy.
Jared Rosenthal
00:07:03 – 00:07:28
Business, you know, by law they need to get breathalyzed. This is not the police type of breathalyzer where there’s any suspicion. It’s basically certain laws that govern the transportation industry. After any accident they need to get tested within 2 hours and so now I put my name out there for 24/7 service and we would drive out and and and do the test. So I saw the need for that and and the opportunity that that could possibly be a way to establish the business
Jeff Bullas
00:07:28 – 00:07:38
right. So, you did that, and what was that business called? Because obviously the rebranding, which I love, um, what was your first name for the business?
Jared Rosenthal
00:07:39 – 00:07:49
Well, the name of the business is and, and still is Health Street, so it was, uh, you know, health, right? And then, uh, the Who’s your daddy was just sort of the, uh, product name or the branding for the, uh, for the DNA test.
Jeff Bullas
00:07:50 – 00:07:55
OK. So you repainted the truck. Uh, what color was it?
Jared Rosenthal
00:07:56 – 00:08:26
Uh, I painted it. Well, the who’s your daddy went through two iterations, but one of them, what else did him be was a big, um, sort of, uh, um, what do you call, candy, candy, uh, blue, you know, super bright baby baby blue, and, uh, I had graffiti artists actually these guys are friends of mine in the Bronx. These guys have started out, you know. Doing it the illegal way and being, you know, got recognized as really good, started getting paid for doing graffiti and, you know, a bunch of guys went down that route at that time.
Jared Rosenthal
00:08:26 – 00:08:49
And uh but their work was just really cool so it was very striking. Everybody loved it. You know we did it in that graffiti style and literally from the day I painted it, the cameras were snapping everywhere. It was just wild, you know, and within a couple of weeks, the New York Post was there and they did an article and then, you know, just kept going from there.
Jeff Bullas
00:08:49 – 00:08:50
So what year was this?
Jared Rosenthal
00:08:51 – 00:08:53
Uh, 2012.
Jeff Bullas
00:08:53 – 00:08:56
Right, so you’re right at the peak of organic social media.
Jared Rosenthal
00:08:58 – 00:09:10
Yeah, I mean, I think at one point I came into the office and my co-worker saw something on there and he said, I think we just went viral and I was like, what’s that, you know, like it was kind of a new thing.
Jeff Bullas
00:09:12 – 00:10:05
Yeah, because, uh, in 2012, I started, uh, you know, JeffBullis.com in 2009, and, uh, it was just a passion project because of my curiosity about the impact of social media and bypassing gatekeepers, so everyone could have a voice. But obviously in 2012, and so, but that, this was before we had the algorithms, where the social media platforms such as Facebook and Twitter and everyone started imposing algorithms to stop. Visibility of people’s normal tweets to make it possible to make maximize revenue, right, so this is before algorithms really started to cramp the individual’s voice and uh and which happened started happening about 2013, 2014, so, but I think you would have gone viral at any rate, because it’s such a great name, so. So obviously you.
Jeff Bullas
00:10:06 – 00:10:17
You know, I didn’t do a marketing degree but you are just really good at this name. Was it like an intuition you’re saying, I think this might work. Did you do, did you do any research, I’m sure or not?
Jared Rosenthal
00:10:17 – 00:10:39
No, no, no research. You know what I was, um, you know, I was running, I ran, uh, national marketing and sales when I was at Amerigroup, you know, and I remember thinking, you know, something like this would never go over in a, you know, in a corporate setting of all, it’ll be 20 meetings, you know, and you’d have to do all that research and. And I just said, you know, let me, let me try it, you know what I mean? There was no.
Jared Rosenthal
00:10:39 – 00:11:08
You know, it wasn’t much to it. It wasn’t too expensive to get these guys to paint it, so, um, you know, it was just like, hey, let’s, let’s give it a try. One of the reasons I really wanted to be in my own business was because of those kinds of things, right? I remember in corporate world I would have an idea and someone say, Well, look, it’s a good idea, but it’s gonna take a lot of coaxing and a lot of persuading and 12 meetings and, and I said to myself, you know what, I don’t like that idea that much, right? I, it’s not that it really matters. Let me, let me do.
Jared Rosenthal
00:11:08 – 00:11:37
Things where I can get things done and not deal with bureaucracy, so going into your own business, that’s a real benefit, you know, if you wanna just cut through the chase and I had sort of the attitude too of, you know, if I get it wrong, I get it wrong and that’s OK because I’m, I’m experiencing running the business and it’s not necessarily about always doing it right and having the best person and the best consultant and the best answer but it’s about, you know, the experience of of of doing these kind of things.
Jeff Bullas
00:11:38 – 00:11:41
So when did you know that uh it was gonna work?
Jared Rosenthal
00:11:42 – 00:12:21
Uh, well, the business, the first year, which was 2010, um, was rough, you know, I had a few jobs I was able to get and I just kind of didn’t really know anything about SEO or web or anything like that. I just put a listing on Google and a few people started calling and I got, you know, a little bit of my name out there. Um, it started hitting in 2011. Uh, where I started saying, well, you know what, I’m getting a lot more calls. This would be much better business in an office building a call center and rather than driving all over to try to do the tests, right, uh, because you could get people in, you know there’s clinics that’ll do these things.
Jared Rosenthal
00:12:21 – 00:13:07
And it’s often quite cheap, you know, maybe $10.20 dollars to pay for them to just do the urine collection or the swabbing of the cheek, uh, for DNA, uh, so we set it up more as a, a call center but we still kept that, you know, mobile, uh, in the New York City area. And um you know as soon as I painted that truck it was like instant, you know, in terms of the who’s your daddy hitting the media, you know, New York being also very media central kind of a place, you know, the, the, the day that it was in the post, I was on like 11 channels they were just coming all day ABC, Fox, NBC just one after the next radio shows called it was just nuts, you know, I never really experienced anything like that.
Jared Rosenthal
00:13:07 – 00:13:40
And um after that about 30 production companies called to try and pitch me on on the show so I was able to sort of leverage that yeah yeah it was like one of these things where they all saw it I guess never really think about it but they have sort of an. Idea for what makes a good um unscripted show and it’s typically you know drama as well as a conclusion and an answer and sort of a reveal moment so but just sort of tailor made for this uh and every producer saw it right away and they all started calling.
Jeff Bullas
00:13:41 – 00:13:46
So did that, uh that would have helped the business?
Jared Rosenthal
00:13:46 – 00:14:28
Well, my thought with that, you know, because here’s the thing, right, um, it wasn’t really what I did all day. I wasn’t driving around all day at that point doing just these tests, um, but it would put my name out there and it was like a once in a lifetime opportunity to, to sort of brand the business and say these are our values, you know, the way in which I was able to talk to people on the show and give them information and, you know, help them through sometimes very negative reveals, right? Um, so I said this is, this is a better opportunity than anything I can do with, you know, writing, um, you know, articles or, or, you know, you know, optimizing my website. I said, this is, you know, it’s given to me, it’s I think.
Jared Rosenthal
00:14:29 – 00:14:57
You know they spent, I don’t know, several million dollars on the show and I said there’s like millions of dollars of a marketing budget that I get to, you know, lead the effort and you know not everybody right, let’s say that someone sees it in Texas and they want the test. Well, I have a clinic there, right? I can’t, I’m not gonna drive to Dallas, but more importantly, and this is sort of a hidden sort of uh value is that Google and you know the search engines they see and they draw the relationship between the business name.
Jared Rosenthal
00:14:58 – 00:15:21
And the product and the trustworthiness of it because of the exposure so the person in Dallas that needs a test or San Francisco needs a test, they may never have seen the show or heard of the show or anything like that, but they go to Google to search and because Google has established that trust and that value, then then they’re finding me first, right? And then now I’m able to set that test up for them in their hometown.
Jeff Bullas
00:15:22 – 00:15:34
So did they pay for rights to the show, or you just treated it as free advertising? Did you get paid to be on basically your own show that they actually funded?
Jared Rosenthal
00:15:35 – 00:16:06
Yeah, yeah, I got, I got some, some payment, you know, generally speaking, the first year of any of these unscripted shows, people get very little, um, or if anything at all, right? But I was in a really unique position because number one, I was able to leverage them. Different, you know, there was sort of a competitive situation with all the people calling and number 2 it was my business as well so there’s a business access fee that they had to pay, you know, and I was gonna be on the show, right? and I ended up being, I was able to negotiate so that I could actually um.
Jared Rosenthal
00:16:06 – 00:16:35
Uh, they call it executive producer, which is just a fancy title, but, uh, I was able to sort of watch the stuff before it went to the network. So if I didn’t like something, you know, I was able to veto it and you know it was a lot of work, but, um, I was able to get as much of, uh, input as I could, which was very unusual what I found a lot of people I knew that were in similar situations they didn’t, you know, first time they saw the show is when everybody else saw it on TV, you know, and they weren’t didn’t have that, uh, that opportunity to, to have that input.
Jeff Bullas
00:16:35 – 00:16:59
Did you hire someone to help you navigate that media landscape? Because it can be a little bit, um, like, you know, they’ve got teams of lawyers and everything, and they’re used to the game, whereas you’re being brought into the game as a complete amateur, effectively. Did you, did you use any, uh, outside consulting expertise, lawyers, whatever to actually help you navigate these agreements?
Jared Rosenthal
00:16:59 – 00:17:28
Yeah, I’ll tell you a quick story. You know, one of the guys that was trying to get the show was working for a major network, right? I won’t mention it which one? and he said you gotta do it with us and I said, Well, I also have these production companies calling that can sell it to networks, and he said 100% you could ask any lawyer in New York, he, um, you gotta go with the network over the production company, and I said, Well, that’s funny you mentioned that because I need a lawyer. Can you, can you give me a name? And he said, Sure. And he gave me a few names and I called, uh, this, this woman.
Jared Rosenthal
00:17:28 – 00:17:36
And uh she said, I don’t know who that guy is, but I’d say definitely go with the production company, not the network. So that’s how I found my lawyer.
Jeff Bullas
00:17:40 – 00:17:46
So, How long did, like how many episodes did it run for like?
Jared Rosenthal
00:17:47 – 00:17:49
One season 8 shows.
Jeff Bullas
00:17:49 – 00:18:09
8 shows. OK, right. So cool. Right, so you’re, you’re paying the truck, you’re getting attention, you’re starting, so first year’s tough, it’s bootstrapped. Um, so your main marketing then was outbound calling from a call center in an office. Is that what you are, your main marketing channel?
Jared Rosenthal
00:18:09 – 00:18:43
Inbound 100% inbound so you know initially I tried to do some outbound stuff and reach out to businesses but what I found in this business, and this is like one of these things where you gotta know your product, right? And this particular product is not something that you know brand awareness has a lot of value. Uh, it was when you need it you go and look for it, right? And so it’s sort of a perfect tailor made for, for search, right, because when you’re not looking for it, you don’t wanna get a call about, oh you gotta set up your drug testing with us maybe you’re only hiring.
Jared Rosenthal
00:18:43 – 00:19:14
Once a year, twice a year, 3 times a year, people aren’t spending time worrying about it until that moment of hire and then they go on search engine and say where can I get a drug test in this area and it’s similar for the DNA test, you know, it’s, um, well we could talk about that separate, right. But um so basically my job was to drive, you know, I should say my job is to make the phone ring, right? And then ultimately that became my job to drive web traffic and online transactions. Uh, we still have a call center, but about 80% now happens online.
Jeff Bullas
00:19:14 – 00:19:53
OK, so essentially you started working on optimizing for search engines in other words, SEO is, and how did you do that? Because back in 2011, 2012. The web wasn’t so crowded and it was actually a lot easier to get to rank number one and create inbound links, whereas today it’s getting with the noise we have online, um, it’s getting, it’s got much tougher because I essentially created a lot of SEO authority. We’ve got, I think our website’s got a domain ranking of 81 or 82, so it’s substantial. Did you create it, how did you create that SEO authority and rank on the first page? Was it just content?
Jeff Bullas
00:19:53 – 00:20:11
Um, did you technically structure your site, so Google like, you know, the site map and all that sort of thing? How did you actually rank on page one with your, and did you do research on the sort of the phrases people were looking for? Tell us about that, how you did that.
Jared Rosenthal
00:20:12 – 00:20:50
Yeah, well, first thing was when I, I, I sort of realized it’s all, it’s all coming through Google right in the beginning, and I said let me find people that are expert in, in this, you know, so I’m, you know, sort of found somebody that was certified as a, you know, Google Platinum whatever they called it at the time and really I just learned from them and studied. You know, the, the, the SEO is so much work, right? that for anybody who wants to do it, if you don’t wanna fully do it, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s probably not worth doing at all because there’s so many different parts of it, right? Technical SEO is about a third of it.
Jared Rosenthal
00:20:50 – 00:21:08
The content is about a third of it and then you know off page, you know, other people linking back to you and talking about you is the other 3 and within each of those thirds there’s a massive amount of work possibly right um we have a really big site. Our site is over 6000 pages because we list separate locations for all
Jeff Bullas
00:21:08 – 00:21:14
you’re optimizing for local search, which is very, very important for you, yes,
Jared Rosenthal
00:21:14 – 00:21:41
yes, so. So really it was, you know, through help that I had with others but studying it as much as I could, um, and because I understood that that’s, you know, that’s where the, the, the, the volume was and you know for search terms for us it was not much more than the you know the product name followed by local terms so drug testing Los Angeles, California drug test New York City, you know, that kind of thing so we optimized for local because we thought those are the.
Jared Rosenthal
00:21:41 – 00:22:14
Transactional, uh, searches, you know, one of the things in, in this particular business and probably a lot of business is the same term could be used in, in a, you know, for informational searches as well as, um, transactional searches. So if you search, you know, a medical term, let’s say you know we do have health also, so let’s say TB tests, right? There’s all kinds of expert material out there WebMD and all this stuff, right. Uh, but if you search TV tests and, and it would be very expensive to, to try and compete with that, right, if, if even if you possibly could, right.
Jared Rosenthal
00:22:14 – 00:22:39
Uh, but if you search TB test Brooklyn, right now it’s a totally different search and we know 99% of that is transactional, whereas TB test 99% might not be so you’re wasting a lot of time and money for something that won’t necessarily lead to a transaction. So, um, that’s as simple as it was the product terms and the local, uh, where, wherever we had a clinic.
Jeff Bullas
00:22:39 – 00:23:21
Yeah. Yeah, so the, yeah, they’re competing for, uh, you know, the, I suppose the transactional side is, is maybe the toughest and also the most lucrative. So, um, you’ve got an expert in, obviously, they did all the research on the different types in terms, and their keyword volume, in other words, how many, you don’t want to rank for a word that gets 3 clicks a month. You want to get ranked for a word that gets, you know, 10 or 20,000. So, when you, SEO is a long game. So, how long did it take from Starting to get serious about SEO, um, until you start to see results because this is something a lot of companies don’t get, and they’re like all these SEO companies going, I’ll rank you next week on page one. How long did it take you?
Jared Rosenthal
00:23:21 – 00:23:46
Yeah, um, you know, uh, years really took years, um, you know, it was, it was a slow but steady progress punctuated by a few drops, scary drops, and we can talk more about what’s going on now because it’s sort of a different world we’re headed into or already are, are in, uh, but you know, SEO, you own this is the way I thought of it all the time like you mentioned about social where you don’t actually own.
Jared Rosenthal
00:23:47 – 00:24:14
You know the mechanism for them to, right, so you’re putting material on their platform and you know I always thought of, if the website is OK, that’s my own domain, my property and you know it’s more controllable as it turns out you’re really playing in Google’s world, right? because if they stop showing your, your one time we launched a new website, you know, about 5 years in 2015 I think 2016 and a much nicer beautiful site.
Jared Rosenthal
00:24:14 – 00:24:40
And had a launch party and gave out t-shirts and that night I checked my phone and there’s no transactions and I said what you know we were doing, you know, millions of business on the old the ugly site, you know, I said put the ugly site back this, you know, and and and you know, and things like that happen and they’re, they’re, you know, not to scare people that haven’t been through it. There are ways to figure it out, but it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s treacherous in certain cases.
Jeff Bullas
00:24:41 – 00:24:46
It is. So it was the new website with a new URL and domain?
Jared Rosenthal
00:24:46 – 00:25:27
Uh, nope, just, you know, switched at that point we switched to WordPress and, uh, you know, it’s just there was a technical glitch with how the web developer did it and it took 3 months to figure out and it was, you know, it was a rough 3 months. I remember it was around the holidays and I was like why did I do this to myself, you know, I gotta be stressed and everything. Um, but now, you know, years later, you know, we’ve built our own web development platform so we do everything internally and push it out, um, you know, no WordPress, everything is, is done through our internal system and, and, uh, a lot more controlled, no outside developers that can, uh, mess things up.
Jeff Bullas
00:25:28 – 00:25:45
Yeah. Yeah, I’ve got, so when we change websites, I’ve got my own tech team that actually builds it because they know it and because it can be easily stuffed up and So let’s fast forward to today, uh, in terms of SCR and what’s happening because it seems to be quite volatile, doesn’t it? Yeah.
Jared Rosenthal
00:25:46 – 00:26:16
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it, it’s, you know, extremely volatile and if you’re, you know, like we’re selling a service, right, uh, so we’re a little bit, you know, the, the impact of what’s happening is, is a little bit delayed for us, whereas if you’re what you’re selling is information or publication you’re probably feeling it a lot more, um, but Google did an, you know, an update at the end of 2023 I believe, uh, that, um, you know, was, was brutal and you know some businesses just sort of fell off the face of the earth and.
Jared Rosenthal
00:26:16 – 00:26:57
Um, we got hit a little bit. We spent a ton of time trying to, to fix, um, you know, what we think is, is wrong, um, you know, one of the trickiest parts of this game is that, you know, there’s been times where there was an algorithm update where we dropped and then did nothing and 6 months later come right back and so you don’t necessarily know that’s the thing that they’ll never tell you and there’s a lot of moving parts as competitors that are changing too. And, and you know no SEO, uh, agency in the world can totally predict the future and say this is what Google’s doing so they’re you know they’ll optimize you for what worked before and hopefully for what’s always worked, which is, you know, good quality and.
Jared Rosenthal
00:26:57 – 00:27:31
and good content, right? but they’re not going to know you know exactly what changes are coming down the road so you’re always kind of in this reactive mode, you know, it’s kind of the, uh, you know, two steps in 2 steps back kind of thing, the, the Google shuffle, you know, and, um. You know, I don’t know, you know, uh, I think a lot of companies get addicted to the good rank and the business it brings in and when they drop in rank they panic and start to advertise more. So you know, maybe this was Google’s intent all along to keep shaking things up and you know get people to spend more money on this on the ads.
Jared Rosenthal
00:27:32 – 00:27:45
Um, but it’s a, it’s a, you know, it’s a tough game. So it’s, one of the things I did wrong was to not establish more channels earlier on, right, um, because that, you know, too much relies on one channel makes you a little more vulnerable.
Jeff Bullas
00:27:45 – 00:28:23
Exactly. So we’ve had the rise of AI in the last two years and I’d be intrigued by your insights into, How it’s impacted your business and maybe how businesses should be using it, because, um, you’re, you’re on the ground, you’re in the street, Hell Street, and you’re trying to work things out. Um, so I think part of the lot I’m noticing is that Google’s experimenting with search and AI and the intersection of those. So, I’m seeing rankings going up, you know, 1010 positions and drop the next day, and then back again. And are you seeing similar, uh, volatility at that level?
Jared Rosenthal
00:28:24 – 00:28:57
Um, for our, for our core, uh, uh, valuable keywords, we’re not seeing that level of volatility, no, but in some of the ones where we didn’t rank as well, it’ll be, you know, it’ll move up a little, a little faster, move up and down a little faster, um. You know, I think what we’re, you know, so there’s, there’s different parts of the AI, right? So there’s one thing Google’s doing in terms of their results page showing an AI summary, right, so you never have to go to the other site if you see it right there, right? Then I might put the link, but if you already got the information you need, you know.
Jared Rosenthal
00:28:57 – 00:29:36
Then what is it, you know, what’s the point. The other, uh, thing is, um, just how they’re changing their algorithm to, you know, on the one hand, say if you have AI written content or we think it’s written by AI, we don’t wanna serve you up, but of course they’re doing everything using AI so it’s a bit of a conundrum there, right? And then there’s I think just the fact that some percentage growing every day of searches are not going to search anymore. They’re going directly to chat GPT and things like that and, and so they’ll never get the, the, um, the, the link or even this AI summary on the search engine.
Jared Rosenthal
00:29:36 – 00:29:56
Right, so those things, you know, now if you’re selling a product, then, you know, currently the AI can’t sell you that product, but that is coming. That is definitely not far away. So, you know, and, and what the scary thing is from a business standpoint is that then it becomes like an all or nothing game, right? Either if.
Jared Rosenthal
00:29:56 – 00:30:23
It is like your website can really function headless at a certain point if the AI is doing the work for the user and the AI is either going to your site or con uh conversing through an API to your system, right? So now if you ask, oh I need a drug test in Houston, Texas, it’s probably only gonna give you one choice and say, well, here’s what I need. I need your name and I’ll get you an appointment on Friday, you know, uh, what you know.
Jared Rosenthal
00:30:23 – 00:30:41
What, uh, what’s, but you’ll probably store your credit card number in the, in your, in your chat client and they’ll just book it for you, right? So now it becomes really, uh, you know, everything or or nothing kind of a thing, whereas at least before if you’re #2 in search is nowhere near as good as number 1, but you’re gonna get something.
Jeff Bullas
00:30:41 – 00:31:31
Yeah, yeah, it’s um how interesting about visibility on AI versus visibility, you know, on search. If we’re in the middle of this huge change, um, but you did mention that maybe they’re messing around with rankings, uh, basically to make people spend more money on advertising, because what’s interesting, you have a look at the data, Google’s revenue’s gone up on search Google ads, but its actual search volume has dropped, and you might be right, so maybe you, you know, you’ve nailed that insight maybe is quite insightful because uh, By confusion and by removing ranking, you know, well how else do I get visibility? Because it’s the game’s visibility to get the, you know, the click and then get the transaction or the information you need. Um, so,
Jeff Bullas
00:31:32 – 00:32:03
In terms of, we’ve done some research trying to find out how can you rank in chat GPT because about a year ago I was, I was interviewed by someone who’s looking for bloggers that use AI, right, and apparently I turned up in Chat GPT search regarding that, so I said, That’s good, but, um, are you guys doing any research on how, To appear in a chat GPT um prompt, um, and what have you found if you have?
Jared Rosenthal
00:32:03 – 00:32:43
Well, I, what my thought was, was to turn our back end system and, you know, create an API for external systems to be able to hit it. Right, and then expose it using a common language like open API language, right? So then basically what that means if you’re not familiar with this is, you know, an API is just a system talking directly to another system, right? So, so just think about booking a flight it’s easier to think of and instead of searching flights to Miami and they show you Expedia and whatever and you go to the site and you put in your information and you book your flight, you know, the API that the Expedia or whatever you know airline has.
Jared Rosenthal
00:32:44 – 00:33:15
Open it, uh, the, the chat can reach out and say we have an API. What do you need to know in terms of booking a flight and the API was fine. Well, I need a name. I need a date. I need how many people it is round trip, you know, blah blah. And then it’ll ask the client to turn around, say, OK, this is what. needed and then it sends the information and now that API then processes it just like if you were entering it on a computer so my thought with how to optimize for AI was that’s really the way ultimately that I believe it’s gonna go and not ultimately meaning not too far in the future.
Jared Rosenthal
00:33:16 – 00:33:53
Recently they started this, you know, operator I’m sure you’ve heard of where, where they actually go on the websites and, and try to read it and crawl it, which is way more, um, um, yeah, it’s clunky right now it’s slow. We, we, uh, you know, we, we’re testing it out, uh, just to see what it’s like. I guess the thought process. For them must be that there’s, you know, way more websites than there are APIs right? because you actually have to build an API to expose it so maybe they figure they can just get a broader swath of the of the web, but it seems to me that um you know if you could hit an API which they can right uh already um.
Jared Rosenthal
00:33:54 – 00:34:25
Then that’s gonna be a much more effective way for for them going so so then how do you then now it’s no longer SEO it’s chat EO or CEO you have to now market that to them so that they’re aware of it, uh, if and when they, they, uh, they allow you to and, um, you know, that will be its own, um, you know, uh, specialty trying to trying to figure that out. Um, but again, it will be more of an all or nothing kind of a thing and
Jared Rosenthal
00:34:25 – 00:34:52
And so getting out ahead of that I think is really important. So even though it’s not here yet, right, they’re not storing your credit card on their system it’s clear that they will, right? I mean that’s another way for them to monetize it. Why wouldn’t they try and do the transaction, uh, from the chat if they didn’t have to send you to the site to do the transaction so that they could take a piece of it? So I think getting ready for that, um, by creating an API or.
Jared Rosenthal
00:34:52 – 00:35:20
Looking at the operator, get it for a month and see what it does on your site. As it to go to your site and you know uh get information and see how it reads it and you learn all kinds of things like, like we learned, um, we didn’t have a lot of accessibility uh features like ARIA labels they call them behind the scenes but like every button on the website, you know, has this thing called an ARIA label if you know you can put it on there right that tells a screen reader what it does so now the.
Jared Rosenthal
00:35:20 – 00:35:41
The chat is using a lot of that accessibility stuff, uh, that people use when they have disabilities. Currently, um, they’re using that to help inform them of what they’re crawling on your site. So if it goes that way, it’s important that you know what it is that these operators call operators right now, what they do when they crawl your site and how they, how they interpret it.
Jeff Bullas
00:35:41 – 00:36:18
Yeah. Yeah, I, I think you’ve, you know, hit the biggest trend in 2025, which is Agente AI. In other words, the use of agents that actually act on your behalf. Yes. And that’s, that’s certainly, um, I think there’s, there’s a whole bunch of them like you mentioned, uh, OpenAI or Chat UBTs, Agenic AI app, which is operator. Um, yeah, so it’s, um, yeah, everyone’s, what’s, I suppose all of us are struggling with is the velocity and, and amount of change that is happening. Uh, it’s not just change, it’s the velocity of the change that we’re struggling with, isn’t it?
Jared Rosenthal
00:36:18 – 00:36:48
Absolutely, it’s, it’s, it’s immense and it’s, and it’s never felt so unstable, you know, looking out 3 years, right, because it’s very hard to know what’s gonna happen. Um, I do think that productivity, like if you’re running a business, you have to be able to use AI at least for, you know, forget about the, the marketing side of it. You have to be able to increase productivity because your competitors will, right? And there are easy ways, you know, that you can use AI to, you know.
Jared Rosenthal
00:36:48 – 00:37:09
Speed things up and it doesn’t have to be everything at once. It could be as simple as, you know, you know, having your, your, uh, staff do research on there or you know there’s there’s there’s many things that used to take hours and hours to do that that we can do now that’s a lot, um, that’s a lot faster, more effective and it’s getting, you know, it’s sort of becoming exponential.
Jeff Bullas
00:37:09 – 00:37:19
Yep. So are you using AI basically to help you facilitate your customer service, your inbound calls or questions, are you using AI for that yet?
Jared Rosenthal
00:37:19 – 00:37:47
Um, we’re experimenting with it, so I did something that I thought was pretty cool. Um, it didn’t end up being a huge impact, but basically when, you know, we, we have an internal system we use FileMaker as our, as our operating system which is, um, if you’re not familiar with it, it’s, uh, there are companies in Australia that use it. I know because I’ve seen them at these conferences, but it’s sort of the least known product from the best known company in the world, which is Apple. Apple has um a division called FileMaker.
Jared Rosenthal
00:37:47 – 00:38:08
Um, and it’s been a great, uh, product for us. We’re able to build everything in house. One of the things we did was when the phone rings, when somebody picks up the phone, it pops up a screen with all the information about, you know, that we can get from the caller ID related to their records in the system. We have all their history, right? And that’s what we were doing all along and now what I did was, OK, as soon as.
Jared Rosenthal
00:38:08 – 00:38:30
That call comes in in the background. I grab all of the history of that company, you know, and all the tests they’ve done with us, how long they’ve been with us. Are they using only one product line? are they using multiple and just sort of bundle it up, send it to Chat GBT and the person is on the phone, you know, talking to the, you know, they, they can quickly see what the history themselves, right?
Jared Rosenthal
00:38:30 – 00:38:55
Um, but then if maybe 5 seconds later, 10 seconds later, it the, the response comes in and it’ll pop up and give them a bunch of suggestions and say, hey, you know, um, maybe you should tell them to, you know, uh, offer a different product line, you know, ultimately was I that impressed with it? It kind of felt like it was a lot of marketing 101, right? Tell them to cross sell, tell them to upsell. I was like, oh well, I, I could have said that, right? and then.
Jared Rosenthal
00:38:55 – 00:39:10
To send all that information to do it, but I’m sure that there’s something in there if I keep pressing on it that we’ll be able to figure out. Also, we have an experienced call center. We don’t have a lot of new people, so if you’re training, that would probably be a lot more helpful, right, for new people.
Jeff Bullas
00:39:12 – 00:39:32
So how many in your call center? Right, OK, cool. So, uh, and you, do you, um, the other thing that’s maybe impacted, like, COVID must have been a challenge for you because of, um, of actual, uh, not being able to access public access would have been difficult. How do you navigate COVID?
Jared Rosenthal
00:39:32 – 00:39:57
Well, we were also doing um tests in the office, so I had one in Brooklyn and one in the Bronx and a few people in each, and you know we get walking, so people would come in with their, you know, child to do DNA tests and it would, you know, set the phone down. Some would do the test we had, uh, truck truckers coming in for drug tests and that sort of thing. So, um, you know, with this file maker system which I built myself and I’m not a technical person by training.
Jared Rosenthal
00:39:57 – 00:40:22
I was always very afraid that if we didn’t have a really good internet connection that it just wouldn’t work, you know, like I didn’t know it was hard to know, uh, but you know that’s when I had to finally test it and so we basically shut the offices they’re still the one in Brooklyn, but there’s only one person there and everybody went home uh, some of them didn’t have internet at all we, you know, so we basically paid for their internet, uh, stopped paying for the office, saved a lot of money.
Jared Rosenthal
00:40:22 – 00:40:48
And I tell you what, it’s been so much better, uh, almost immediately, first of all, no one was ever late, right? They just roll out of bed and they’re clock in and start working and it used to be always somebody was late. I mean big city New York, it’s always traffic, trains delayed, none of that, right? And the work, it turns out , was perfectly fine. File maker work just great, you know, in terms of the speed and and.
Jared Rosenthal
00:40:48 – 00:41:11
You know, we, uh, did a few things is, you know, the technically and have a VP of, uh, information technology that set things up, you know, we have the database in Amazon, AWS, so some of that had to be there, but it really turns out it was much better not having a call center and you know, as a benefit we don’t have to clean up the pee after somebody comes in to uh do a trick.
Jeff Bullas
00:41:13 – 00:41:33
Cool. So um. As an opportunity, it sounds like you’ve built a, you know, sort of like your own tech stack, if you like. Can you give us a quick snapshot of, of what it’s, what’s been involved? A quick thumbnail sketch of what sort of tech stack you built, because, uh, how it helps business be more efficient, and tell us a bit about that.
Jared Rosenthal
00:41:34 – 00:42:06
Yeah, so like when I first got founding, the reason I got that was because I said I wanted a product that, I could, you know, had a low barrier to entry but had very high ceilings, you know, and then that was sort of it, you know, there’s certain one, you know, certain database I remember looking at Microsoft Access back then. I don’t even know if it’s still around, but, you know, that kind of you kind of run out of running room at a certain point, um, so I bought a book and it, you know, it was about a month of really just trying to figure out how to do the first set up of a database but then ultimately I have an internal system right that’s running the office but.
Jared Rosenthal
00:42:06 – 00:42:48
It’s not communicating with the outside, right? They’re going to our website and even if I had a shopping cart, it wasn’t, you know, connected and so what I was able to do ultimately, uh, and so I basically, uh, run the inside the file maker and the back end stuff and then we have other staff that were able to hit that API essentially and expose the front end so we built it in uh in Vercell, um, so it’s an XJS. A, uh, it’s written in typescript and so basically now our clients log in and they set up their own testing they search for clinics they do everything that we can do and and the file maker in the back end in the office now it’s exposed to the front end through this web application.
Jeff Bullas
00:42:49 – 00:42:54
Right, so you’re making the basic customer experience pretty, uh, pretty easy to use.
Jared Rosenthal
00:42:55 – 00:43:24
Yeah, that’s actually the number one word on our trust pilot. We got like 1100 Trust pilot reviews easily. That’s the number one comment that we get all the time. So we’re trying to like um leverage that in ways like, you know, that’s sort of what we’re known for that we made the process easy because a lot of companies, you know, you, you wanna get set up, they could take a month to get you configured in their system and all this stuff, right? We immediately hit the system and they’re off and running.
Jeff Bullas
00:43:24 – 00:43:48
Because it’s, it’s the thing about business is actually, and, and even with life, if exercise is too hard to do because you’ve got to go and put on, you know, gotta drive a car to get your kayak off and put it on the water, and then get back and put it back in. Whereas, you know, or, and for me, I love running. Um, I’ve been running for a long time, but actually, I did it for 40 years, then I switched to cycling. But I love those sports that have low friction.
Jeff Bullas
00:43:48 – 00:44:03
Put my riding gear on, get on the bike, go, um, I wanna go for a run, put on my shining shorts, t-shirt, short, you know, running shoes, go. Um, so I, I think, you know, and, and the same in business, you need to make it as frictionless as possible, don’t you?
Jared Rosenthal
00:44:04 – 00:44:29
Absolutely. And, and I do a lot of stuff that I don’t even tell anybody about because I just put it behind the scenes and make it easier, right? And they don’t even necessarily know why it’s easy, but I’m setting it up that way. But even if you have, you know, something that is an example of just a shopping cart, the more steps you put in, the more friction you have and the less customers you’re gonna get, you know, you have to make it easy for people to purchase the product.
Jeff Bullas
00:44:30 – 00:44:46
So, What other areas, so you’ve got quite a, you know, a spread of services on your site now, what your business does, such as DNA testing, drug testing and background checks as well. Are you expanding what you’re doing or are you just gonna get better at what you do?
Jared Rosenthal
00:44:47 – 00:45:30
Well, we’re, we, we’ve been trying to expand, you know, the occupational health sort of a newer, uh, growing area, right? And, um, we’ve tried to focus more on B2B rather than because we do individuals as well as businesses, but the thing about businesses is they’re, you know, they reorder they’re hiring all the time some of them have been with us. Since the beginning 10-15 years, um, so it’s more valuable from an enterprise standpoint to grow with businesses so we’ve been trying to figure out how to get more of those, right? So as a marketing challenge on the other side we’ve toyed more than toyed we’ve really spent a lot of time trying to figure out how we could take our web building application and make it available for other small businesses to use because it is so effective and and uh.
Jared Rosenthal
00:45:30 – 00:45:48
You know, useful for us internally so making a generic and getting it out there for others to use is really a totally different line of business right? instead of just taking what made our business run well and maybe selling it to others um but we haven’t uh we haven’t marketed it as such as yet.
Jeff Bullas
00:45:49 – 00:46:01
Yeah, yeah, so the enterprise area, in other words, one customer, but lots of business, isn’t it? So that’s would be, have you explored things like subscription models, in other words, uh, uh, yeah,
Jared Rosenthal
00:46:01 – 00:46:04
we’ve thought about it. It’s it’s, it’s a tough one, right? It’s a tough
Jeff Bullas
00:46:04 – 00:46:04
one
Jared Rosenthal
00:46:04 – 00:46:34
because it’s a product, right? There’s, I mean it’s a service, but you get it discreetly, you get it when you need it. And so to tell folks, yeah, now it’s $30 a month to use it, you know, the Wall Streeters all want the subscription model, you know, I’m not really even sure why because this is a good business, you know, like what does it matter if it comes in monthly or they reliably order 3 tests a year on average or whatever the case be, you know, but, but, you know, looking for ways I find I, I would say my own advice on that for people that are.
Jared Rosenthal
00:46:35 – 00:46:57
Thinking through the same thing, I don’t think it’s smart to start with the presumption that it’s better for your value to have a subscription model and then try and force something into that. Uh, if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t make sense and it’s probably not gonna make sense to the customer either, um, but it didn’t stop us from really trying to think it through a lot, you know, and look for little areas where that might make more sense.
Jeff Bullas
00:46:58 – 00:47:38
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it’s, um, a challenge you see sort of everywhere, you know, everyone’s turning, even, you know, Basically, you can have sunglasses, you know, physical products as a service. It’s like, um, you can get, you know, X sunglasses a year, if you, ah, you know, it’s just the list goes on and I’m like, there’s creative as a service, there’s, you know, so it, it’s, yeah, but, um, you, you must really have a large enough pool. And you’re not dealing in the big end of town where you’ve got to crack projects and have salespeople involved. It’s more like, uh, you just make sure you’ve got a lot of league. A lot of inbound calls are happening and that comes down to being better, good with your search engine optimization and so on, doesn’t it?
Jared Rosenthal
00:47:39 – 00:48:16
Right, and, and you know other people in the space, competitors of ours do a ton of outbound, you know, and they wait for, you know, government agencies to issue an RFP. It says we’re gonna need to test the whole sanitation department or whatever the case may be. And they’ll spend a ton of time reaching out to companies and that sort of thing. It’s just not my cup of tea, and I think if you’re better at SEO, it’s a better business, you know, because if you ever I should say SEO, if you’re better at driving inbound, it’s a, it’s just more effective. The people you speak to, it’s more pleasant, right? They want the service. You’re not trying to talk them into something, you know, they’re calling because they, they, they’re interested in this product.
Jeff Bullas
00:48:16 – 00:48:25
Well, I suppose you can do a lot of the education and credibility upfront with content, can’t you, before you actually need, so they actually can buy without anyone having to tell them.
Jared Rosenthal
00:48:25 – 00:48:51
That that would be the goal and another way we’re using AI is, we transcribe all of the calls, right? So we get about 300 calls a day. And then I’d send them for transcription and then I take all the transcriptions and then I start start sending them to AI and say, OK, give us the most common questions that people are asking so that then we could create content around those questions, um, and hopefully to drive, you know, do exactly what you’re saying.
Jeff Bullas
00:48:51 – 00:49:02
Yeah. Do you use Google like, uh, snippets to help you work out because Google will go through and 10 questions that are commonly asked on that search term. Use that as part of your, uh, optimization.
Jared Rosenthal
00:49:03 – 00:49:06
We, we try to get those right, we try to be listed there,
Jeff Bullas
00:49:06 – 00:49:06
yeah,
Jared Rosenthal
00:49:08 – 00:49:51
right, try to be this exactly, you know, uh, it depends on the search terms. Sometimes they’re there, sometimes they’re not, um, but, um, you know, like years ago before AI what everybody says like what’s. What should you write a blog about? Well, the answer I always got was, well, what are your customers asking? What do they wanna know that you know that other people don’t know, right? And, and this is where that issue of how you can be more productive. All I’m doing is taking the calls and getting transcriptions and then sending the transcriptions and then now I have this visibility into what customers are saying. You know, I can get a summary of 300 calls in, in a couple paragraphs, right? And then use it for this, right, for creating content, exactly.
Jeff Bullas
00:49:51 – 00:50:20
Yeah. And, and that’s the thing, isn’t it’s trying to create content that matters rather than just any content. So, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So what are some of the biggest lessons you’d like to share, just start wrapping it up, um, what are some of the biggest lessons you’ve learned as an entrepreneur since you hit the go button, you know, well over 10 years ago. What, what’s some of the big lessons you’ve learned that, um, just 2 or 31, whatever, what’s the biggest lesson or lessons you’ve learned?
Jared Rosenthal
00:50:21 – 00:50:38
Yeah, I mean, I think you have to have the right, um, sort of internal fibers for the, the, the riskiness of, of being an entrepreneur if you’re starting your own business if you’re doing it at least the way that I did it, which was, you know, I say self funded it really wasn’t much funding at all it was just sort of grit funded, you know.
Jared Rosenthal
00:50:38 – 00:51:06
Um, but never going out to take, you know, big loans or investors always plowing the money back in, you know, from the retained earnings. It’s hard because then you, um, have to compete your personal, uh, priorities have to compete with your business, uh, goals because that money is either going into your bank account or it’s going back into the business and that’s just different from working in a company, you know, where you can just advocate for a project so that’s that’s a big one.
Jared Rosenthal
00:51:06 – 00:51:26
Um, and, uh, you know, I think the idea of, of just like wanting to do, um, business related things, if those are enjoyable to you, you know, I think the biggest issue a lot of people have is they get into business because they’re passionate about the particular topic, but maybe they’re not passionate about business and you know, I think, I think you need both.
Jeff Bullas
00:51:27 – 00:51:41
Yes you do. Cool. So, um, question I always ask, uh, my guest, um, is, if you had all the money in the world, what would you do every day, in other words, what brings you real deep happiness, um,
Jared Rosenthal
00:51:43 – 00:52:21
Yeah, I mean, I’ve been fortunate in that I’ve been, have done very different kinds of jobs, um, and, and I’ve really enjoyed, you know, most of them or I say, I really enjoyed all of them, but most things about them, not everything about them. Um, you know, I really enjoyed sort of getting into the coding side of the, of this, you know, and, and, but I would say probably if I had all the money in the world, I would go back to, you know, managing hundreds of people and being able to lead and teach and sort of convey some of these lessons to, you know, people who didn’t have, excuse me, people that didn’t necessarily have it modeled for them.
Jared Rosenthal
00:52:21 – 00:52:39
Uh, as a kid or in the neighborhood or at school or whatever, uh, to show them, you know, well you can do it, this is how, you know, this is the experience doesn’t look like you’re gonna get there, um, but if you have that vision and you know that you can overcome these things, maybe, maybe you’re better off.
Jeff Bullas
00:52:40 – 00:52:45
So you’d love to be a mentor, in other words, to help people with what you’ve learned along the way. Yeah, or, or,
Jared Rosenthal
00:52:45 – 00:52:48
or run, be, be more back on the people side of it, you know.
Jeff Bullas
00:52:48 – 00:53:35
OK, right, very cool. Yeah. Jarrod, it’s been an absolute pleasure, buddy, and uh I’ve learned a lot just listening to you and uh love the inspiration of uh. Painting the van, you know, bright blue, candy blue, and, uh, who’s your daddy? It’s a marketing stroke, you know, marketing genius, it’s fantastic. So, um, and, um, fabulous and who doesn’t want to get their business turned into a reality show, but maybe you don’t, because it could get really bad. So thank you very much, Jarrod, and, uh, I know if we’re in New York, I’ll, um, maybe find a quiet New York bar and have a beer or a drink or a wine, whatever. So, um,
Jared Rosenthal
00:53:36 – 00:53:39
We’d love to have the pleasure of meeting you, really enjoyed it.
Jeff Bullas
00:53:39 – 00:53:40
OK, great. Thanks, Jared.
Jared Rosenthal
00:53:41 – 00:53:42
OK, take care.