Ken Schmidt is one of the most sought-after executive advisors and speakers. He earned his acclaim by leading Harley-Davidson’s remarkable turnaround from financial ruin to global dominance in the 1990s.
That transformation was based on his highly unconventional re-positioning of the motorcycle icon’s marketplace presence. Ken shifted the company’s culture from a “product-first” mindset to one that prioritized being memorable for how they connect with people.
The company swiftly grew to become the most successful player in the fiercely-competitive worldwide motorcycle industry with the highest levels of customer loyalty of any consumer hardware brand in existence.
Ken’s success, unconventional business approach and playful outspokenness ultimately led him to consulting assignments with household-name brands and made him a highly requested speaker, with more than 1,200 keynotes presented globally to date.
He is also the author of Make Some Noise: The Unconventional Road to Dominance, ghost-author of “100 Years of Harley-Davidson” (the best-selling motorsports book of all time), host of the Tailgating with Geniuses podcast and co-founder of Torque Sessions Leadership Training.
What you will learn
- Discover Ken Schmidt’s lifelong passion for motorcycles, inspired by icons like Evel Knievel, which led him to his pivotal role at Harley-Davidson.
- Learn how Harley-Davidson’s turnaround involved shifting from a product-focused to a people-first approach.
- Understand how the establishment of the Harley Owners Group (HOG) turned dealerships into social hubs, which fostered a sense of belonging and camaraderie among riders.
- See how Harley-Davidson’s success was built on distinctive branding pillars like lifestyle, freedom, camaraderie, individuality, and rebellion, making the brand stand out in a commoditized market.
- Recognize the importance of emphasizing human connection, as Harley-Davidson focused on making customers feel special and validated, leading to repeated business and deep brand loyalty.
- Reflect on how AI and technology can be used to enhance human connection rather than replace it, making businesses more human by allowing them to focus on customer interactions and validation.
Transcript
Jeff Bullas
00:00:04 – 00:00:45
Hi, everyone and welcome to the Jeff Bullas Show today here with me, Ken Schmidt. Ken is one of the most sought-after executive advisors and speakers. He earned his acclaim by leading Harley-Davidson’s remarkable turnaround from financial ruin to global dominance in the 1990s.
That transformation was based on his highly unconventional re-positioning of the motorcycle icon’s marketplace presence. Ken shifted the company’s culture from a “product-first” mindset to one that prioritized being memorable for how they connect with people.
The company swiftly grew to become the most successful player in the fiercely-competitive worldwide motorcycle industry with the highest levels of customer loyalty of any consumer hardware brand in existence.
Jeff Bullas
00:00:46 – 00:01:22
Ken’s success, unconventional business approach and playful outspokenness ultimately led him to consulting assignments with household-name brands and made him a highly requested speaker, with more than 1,200 keynotes presented globally to date.
Ken is also the author of Make Some Noise: The Unconventional Road to Dominance, ghost-author of “100 Years of Harley-Davidson” (the best-selling motorsports book of all time), host of the Tailgating with Geniuses podcast and co-founder of Torque Sessions Leadership Training.
Ken has seen the world on two wheels, partied with rock stars and movie legends, met presidents and royalty, and can’t stand still. He lives by a personal and professional philosophy that states, “Never do what’s expected, always make yourself as noticeably different as possible and have a lot more fun than you’re supposed to.” It works.
Jeff Bullas
00:01:27 – 00:01:36
Alright, Ken. Welcome to the show. It’s an absolute pleasure and i’m looking forward to hearing some more stories. So
Jeff Bullas
00:01:38 – 00:01:55
Tell us how you got to actually be invited into the inner fold of Harley Davidson and to help them, you know, basically rebuild their brand and take over the world in their motorcycle niche. Tell us how that happened?
Ken Schmidt
00:01:55 – 00:02:33
It’s fantastic. Thanks for asking, a fantastic alignment of the stars I think because uh I was a guy who, who grew up with a tremendous passion and love for two wheeled power, two wheels and a motor on anything from the time I was a kid just appealed to me greatly. I’d see an old motorized bicycle and think it was the coolest thing I ever saw. I see mini bikes and think that was the coolest thing I ever saw. And then, uh and this will sound crazy. But if you remember, uh Evel Knievel,
Jeff Bullas
00:02:34 – 00:02:35
he was one of my heroes
Ken Schmidt
00:02:36 – 00:03:14
for, thanks for saying that because for people like me, people of a certain age who came of age in the 19 sixties and then into the 19 seventies, uh before, you know, as before spectacles became as common as they are now. He, he here was this daredevil guy doing these amazing stunts and flying through the air on a motorcycle while the entire world seemed to be watching. And that was just so magical to me and my friends and we imitated that and, and I will, will say, and I have no data to back this up but certainly in the US, anybody over
Ken Schmidt
00:03:15 – 00:03:57
ogs uh anybody over the age of 60 that is in motorcycling Evel Knievel was one of the big drivers of that made it look cool, made it look exciting. So II I was drawn in a moth to flame, drawn to it. And as I got older and, and more involved in motorcycles, I never would have dreamt of getting involved professionally in the motorcycle industry. Uh Let alone this as an opportunity would even exist. I was working in Chicago uh in Apr marketing firm and at an event uh industry event one night over cocktails, I was talking to a gal at a
Ken Schmidt
00:03:58 – 00:04:38
uh big ad agency up the street and in, you know, typical type conversation, you know, who do you work with? And you know how that is? And you know, she’s kind of rattling off the names of their clients and I’m rattling off the clients’ companies that I’m working with and then she just made this offhand comment. She goes, oh yeah. And then we have this other account that nobody wants to work on, uh, Harley Davidson motorcycles. And I, I kind of spit and I said, wait, what? You have a Harley Davidson business and nobody wants to work on it. And she says, well, you know, none of our people ride motorcycles and Harley has this horrible reputation and they don’t spend a lot of money. It’s kind of going down the drain. And I said, oh my God, I would give my left leg
Ken Schmidt
00:04:39 – 00:05:09
to work on that and she said, come over tomorrow and let’s talk. And I did. And by Friday, I had moved over there that this is the absolute best thing that could have ever happened. Uh So I started going back and forth to Milwaukee up to the, uh re headquarters and getting involved in meeting all the players there. Uh, started doing some work in, in, in some advisory stuff in the PR media positioning, uh, and investor relations side of their business.
Ken Schmidt
00:05:09 – 00:05:48
Uh And eventually I had the, you know, they said, well, jeez, why don’t you just jump across the desk and move up here to Milwaukee and just take this on full time. I was like, God bless you. There is a God, there is a God because this is the way I looked at it. I said, and people say why, you know, their business is going down the drain. Is that kind of a risky thing for you? And I said, well, I’m young enough that, if it, you know, God forbid, the worst thing does happen, you know, it’s not the, it’s not the end of the line for me. But secondly, uh, if this, if I do my job right. And
Ken Schmidt
00:05:49 – 00:06:19
I get, you know, to plug into what other people there are, are doing, if we could do this and pull this off and turn this thing around how cool to, to, to be part of that and to watch it and, and Jeff, even on the worst day when you’re, when it’s snowing outside and it’s cold and you’re sitting through meetings or doing horrible things like spending a day with lawyers. Uh You still, you just look around, we, we’re surrounded by motorcycles and motorcycle parts and all those,
Jeff Bullas
00:06:20 – 00:06:24
My partner is actually a lawyer.
Ken Schmidt
00:06:25 – 00:06:29
Oh, we’ll just say that I knew that I just, she, she says
Jeff Bullas
00:06:29 – 00:06:29
to keep a
Ken Schmidt
00:06:29 – 00:06:29
top,
Jeff Bullas
00:06:30 – 00:06:32
she’s so she’s actually ok. That’s all right.
Ken Schmidt
00:06:33 – 00:06:38
Well, she knows what it’s like to have those, all those, all day meetings. So, uh
Jeff Bullas
00:06:38 – 00:06:39
sorry, interrupted
Ken Schmidt
00:06:40 – 00:07:38
and that’s ok. And what was interesting is it, was it, uh very, very dark time at, at Harley, they’d already been in business, you know, since 1903, they’re a household name. People have been tattooing uh Harley’s logo on their body since World War One. I mean, just for, you know, perspective for how old this thing is and how long it’s been around. But by that point, uh in the wake of lower priced really well made competitive stuff from Japan primarily. You know, all the names everybody knows Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Germany, you know, BMW. Lot, lot of big names decided that they were going to get into big heavyweight bikes like Harley was building and basically make them faster, lighter, cheaper uh and arguably better than
Ken Schmidt
00:07:38 – 00:08:30
Basically uh took all of Harley’s market share away. And the good company was very quickly circling the drain, uh very close to filing for bankruptcy. So it, it, it, it, it was really bleak and really difficult. But I’ll tell you that even though people are quick to blame, you know, all, all these big competitors came in and ate Harley’s launch. I always have to correct them and say, nope, they didn’t uh do, they came into the market and Harley fed them their launch. It made things too easy for them, and didn’t compete. Just, just try to rest on the laurels of the business and promote and sell motorcycles uh up against companies that had very, very deep pockets that had very, very good products. And the uh Harry Davison basically found himself noncompetitive
Ken Schmidt
00:08:31 – 00:08:42
and that, that I see that happen to businesses every day, all, all around the world as you’ve got people that are good at what they do but not good at competing,
Jeff Bullas
00:08:42 – 00:08:57
right. So what’s the, so what was the secret sauce that you were able to pull together with the rest of the team at Harley to save Harley from extinction.
Ken Schmidt
00:08:58 – 00:09:36
You know, it was neat. Uh, it, it, it was a greatly reduced workforce because of, you know, layoffs and, and the, you know, the pending bankruptcy. Uh, the people that remained, were very, very passionate motorcyclists and I, I would never, uh never really, ever talk about Hurley, not, not talking about, talk about just how much the people that were there, loved the business and wanted it to succeed. The unfortunate reality was, was that virtually everyone that worked at the company believed that the reason for the business’s existence
Ken Schmidt
00:09:38 – 00:10:20
was to build and sell products, motorcycles. We make something, we’ll make it, you know, we can make it better, let’s make it better and that’ll solve all of our problems. But see that, that’s kind of the fundamental problem. I alluded a minute ago to this belief that too many businesses have, that we want to be known for what we do and we want to do what we do really well. And see the, the problem with that is, is that kind of just gets you into the game. You know, you have to be good at what you do and you’ve got to do it well, and you’ve got to do it efficiently. Right. And, and, you know, uh, you have to have an eye on doing things, right. But
Ken Schmidt
00:10:21 – 00:11:16
it’s extremely difficult to compete with that unless you’re selling something that absolutely nobody else has. Unless you’ve got that cure for, you know, infectious diseases that nobody else has, no matter how good you are at what you do, somebody else is gonna do it just as well. And then where are you? And then they’re gonna price their stuff lower than yours. Well, now you’re in big trouble because now you’re, now you’re forced to compete with products. And what Harley lived the hard way is that when you live by product, eventually you die because others figure out how to do it too. So what I think the biggest discovery, accidental discovery that I had the biggest piece of learning was that what makes a business memorable to people isn’t what the business does. It’s the business.
Ken Schmidt
00:11:17 – 00:12:01
Yes. Think about it. Think about it this way, Jeff, if you, if you’re thinking about a business or talking about a business, no matter who it is, pick an airline. If you’re talking about a business, you always humanize it and you use the pronoun, they, I don’t like them, they stink or they’re awesome. They rock. But I love this business. And with that music, we’re not thinking in terms of what the business does because that, that’s understood. If we’re thinking positive things about a business, we’re thinking about the people behind the product, behind the service, the culture, the energy, the life force, you know, the, the, the passion, you know, or lack thereof that people remember and can identify with.
Ken Schmidt
00:12:03 – 00:13:02
So my, my take on that and what I, you know, teaching advice to, to the businesses is that we have to be human first. We need to trip human levers, basic drivers of human behavior, basic human needs and do it in a way that people see and appreciate and have gratitude for uh you know, you know, delighting people, let’s not build products and sell them to people and serve them. That’s what everybody does, right? That’s what we have to do. That’s kind of the lowest level of expectation. What if we focus first on engaging people at a, at a human level? Let’s be a source of delight for people. Make people feel better about themselves, do things for people that they don’t expect us to do one that puts a human face on the business, but something really magical happens, Jack, because when you
Ken Schmidt
00:13:03 – 00:13:58
do something for another person that delights them, even the smallest measure of delight, it’s basic human behavior. We’re joy seeking species, we will seek out and return to any source of delight in our lives no matter how small that delight is until it fails to delight us. And that’s what loyalty is. We’re not loyal to a motorcycle or a lawnmower or, you know, a piece of furniture. We’re loyal to the people behind it that made that happen, that made me feel this way about that and that, that was absolutely huge for us because we said, look, instead of building our business around glorifying our product and glorifying what we do. Let’s instead glorify everyone associated with this business. Let’s make the effort about him
Ken Schmidt
00:13:58 – 00:14:39
making that customer, that potential customer, that dealer, that supplier, that kid who’s out there looking. Let’s do something in front of them that delights them. Let’s let them see how much we love what we’re doing here, make our passion visible, make delighting them visible because they’re going to see it, notice it and react to it, Powell and they absolutely did. And it created all kinds of points of preference for us in a highly price driven commoditized marketplace. People were willing to pay more, not, not to buy the Harley, they were willing to pay more to do business with us, the human side of the equation,
Jeff Bullas
00:14:40 – 00:15:24
right? So, uh I do remember that um some of the stories I’ve heard about Harley Davidson in that there was a tagline that was brought out and maybe this was that tagline was about humanizing the experience that a Harley Davidson bike brought you as a human. The joy of the open road. Can you? So how did you get that message out there? It’s um so I get that there’s people who remember joy and they’ll go back to that well, and feed and drink from that. Well, all the time, it’s about choosing happiness when you find a place to sip at that table, eat at that table, you will go back and that could be a brand. So how did you get this message out to the world? A AAA
Ken Schmidt
00:15:24 – 00:15:34
a couple of ways? That’s a great question, Jeff. Um What, first of all, what we sought to do because we realized that when we are
Ken Schmidt
00:15:36 – 00:16:16
Visibly present with the people that we serve, we’re able to, you know, talk with them about who we are and, and gain tremendous insight into who they are. How do you like to ride? What’s a perfect weekend for you? Where would you go if you go anywhere in the world on two wheels, where would you go? And who would you go with? And you just, and get people talking about themselves and you were, you know, kind of reacting to what they’re telling you. Well, how would we have to change this bike to help you do that? And the guy would say, well, I wish I would need my handlebars to be higher handlebars to be lower. You know, we furiously scribble all these comments down that they’re making because they’re basically telling us how they want us to change the product
Ken Schmidt
00:16:16 – 00:17:11
uh to serve them better. So we determined, ok, we’re gonna be the most visible company in our industry where everybody else is waiting for customers to visit a dealership and come to them. We’re gonna be, we’re gonna do tons of events at our dealerships. Have our dealerships, do you know, custom bike shows and ride shows? Fashion shows, just open house type party environments where people will come in. Have a great time. All under that Harley Davidson umbrella have opportunities to greet, you know, first name basis relationships with people at the dealership and other riders from their local community that, you know, they might just be meeting for the first time. And the feedback we started getting for people is that we, you’re giving us excuses to get out and get together. And basically, we didn’t know that we were missing that
Ken Schmidt
00:17:12 – 00:17:57
in our lives. This isn’t a solitary pursuit. This is something that it’s more fun when we do it together with other people. God, Jeff, the business benefits from that because now riders are coming in and they’re bringing their friends. You gotta come, you know, meet at the dealership on Sunday and we’re gonna have coffee and donuts and we’re all gonna go off and ride together. You need to come and do this. It was so much fun and more larger and larger groups just kept being attracted, you know, like moths to this flame. Uh There’s a lot of fun stuff happening at the Harley shopper at this event that, you know, Harley’s doing nationally or regionally or whatever that is. Let’s go, let’s go spend time with the people from the Hurley factory. Let’s let, let’s talk to the people who design and engineer
Ken Schmidt
00:17:57 – 00:18:26
the bikes and who, who, who build them and paint them and customize them and all this wonderful stuff and get, get to know them as they get to know us and the dividends that, that is paid that, that basically set the table for just the, the three plus decades run of complete market dominance that the company’s been enjoying this social human side of, you know, what’s essentially a commodity business.
Jeff Bullas
00:18:27 – 00:18:58
So, are you, so the tactics if we can distill this? So what you’re saying is that you said, OK, we’re going to humanize a brand. We’re gonna bring bike, passionate bike riders to meet other passionate bike riders who are the salespeople at the dealership. And then you’re going to make it so much fun there that you are going to build a community that will then be word of mouth marketing that will actually then spread like a fire. OK? Is that essentially what you do?
Ken Schmidt
00:18:59 – 00:19:09
Let me distill it down a little bit further. So, because I, I don’t want to give the impression that this was just some fingers snapped and magical things started happening.
Jeff Bullas
00:19:09 – 00:19:09
It, it,
Ken Schmidt
00:19:09 – 00:19:59
it involves uh getting together with uh Harley Davidson dealers and saying essentially, look what we’ve been doing collectively isn’t working. What we want you to do is move away from this business that’s here to sell products. I mean, obviously we have to do that, but we can’t make the business around, sell the product. Instead, what we want to do is to humanize our business trip and very, very basic drivers of human behavior, meet some basic human needs for people as they come in to see us. And instead focusing, focus on delighting people, which means we can, we’re not here to sell you a bike.
Ken Schmidt
00:20:00 – 00:20:37
Because if we lead with that, essentially what we’re doing is encouraging you as a buyer to compare us to others. We don’t want to be compared to, we don’t want you comparing the features and benefits of the products because a lot of that you’re not going to understand anyway, you know, and that’s just gonna force you to compare against somebody who sell them this, you know, stuff that looks the same for less money. So it works against us. So you, so let, let’s focus on making people really comfortable with us to light them up, meet human needs for people that they’re not used to having met, which means when somebody walks in instead of,
Ken Schmidt
00:20:38 – 00:21:07
You know, thanks for coming in today. Can I show you a bike? It’s like, hey, great to see you. Come on, Ed, you know, Mi Casa, it’s you casa, grab a doughnut and a cup of coffee. Make yourself at home, man. So glad you’re here. People aren’t used to that. Hey, this is kind of nice. It’s uh it’s not pressured. I have a chance to relax. I can get comfortable with the environment and the people that work here. Uh And what’s amazing is that we learned
Ken Schmidt
00:21:09 – 00:21:56
that there are these simple drivers of human behavior, these basic human needs that for most people are never met, right? We all have the need to be fed every day and have shelter and you know, water and, and, and love and connection. But what we also need at the same level as those uh biological needs is we need to feel validation. We need to feel welcome and wanted and important and necessary and special and you know, visible. Most people, human beings don’t in an average day, week, month, never experience that outside the house. People don’t, you know, react or light up to you or greet you with a super friendly voice when you call on the on the phone, when you’re calling into someplace where you, we’re just all these invisible,
Ken Schmidt
00:21:57 – 00:22:48
You know, bodies are invisible, potential customers out there. What we found is that when we intentionally tripped those drivers of human behavior, met those needs to light up and react in front of people reacting super positively to their arrival to their presence to whatever it is they’re doing that people have a little dopamine released in their brains. Someone’s paying attention to me and I like that and you know, what do we do to any source of delight? We keep coming back to it until it fails to delight us. So as long as we as a business and people working in this business are focused on, you know, delighting people and tripping these little human triggers. We greatly increasing the odds of people are gonna keep coming back for more of that and, you know, bring, bringing their friends
Ken Schmidt
00:22:49 – 00:23:31
with them and, and I get business people say this all the time. Well, you know, we don’t sell, you know, a cool thing like a motorcycle. You know, Elvis didn’t get his picture taken, you know, and uh with our products like he did with yours and you know, we’re not famous and I say, see, we’re, that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re not talking about selling products or we’re not talking about how, how well known you are for what you do. It’s, we’re basically just talking about who you are to the people that you serve and want to serve right in the, in the human face that you put on. Because if you don’t change the behavior of the business, the business doesn’t change,
Jeff Bullas
00:23:31 – 00:24:00
right? I’m intrigued and curious about it. So you create a one off experience of joy as in you bring them in and you run a weekend event. Um So, but joy is not a destination, it’s an ongoing journey. So what was, so that was the start of the journey? What were the next steps in terms of trying to continue to delight?
Ken Schmidt
00:24:00 – 00:24:55
I think it was such a perfect, perfectly timed question. Because as we began to, to realize that look, the, the, the needle moves when we get together with people, when a dealer does an event, you know what? At the end of the week they, the cash register rang more than it did the week before. Ok, let’s connect some simple dots here. Get together with people. They come in and they spend money. That’s good for our business. Good for their business. We need to do more of this. Well, how can we formalize this socialization of our sport, this camaraderie thing that we’re building. Uh So if you were to ever see somebody wearing a jacket that had a patch on the back that said Harley Owners Group and there are millions of people around the world that wear those that is all a
Ken Schmidt
00:24:56 – 00:25:46
reflection of the formalization of this process. Let’s create through our dealerships, localized riding clubs called the Harley Owners Group. It’s a social club that meets a minimum of, you know, once a month in a lot of places as often as once a week on the grounds of the sponsoring dealership. A social club is happening, it’s meeting, it’s planning events, activities may be fundraisers for charities, dances, parties, and obviously a lot of writing together. Uh people pay to be part of this club. It’s a dues paying club and you get to wear the patch on the back and it’s got your name on the front and you, you belong to something that’s really cool. So you’re part of a tribe and you are not only you’re part of a tribe but everybody that sees, you know that you’re part of that.
Ken Schmidt
00:25:46 – 00:26:12
Right? And that feels good to see. You know, people look at me when I wear this jacket with all the patches on it. I like that. I’m gonna keep wearing this jacket, I’m gonna keep coming back for these events and these activities. Uh And it was amazing and it’s still amazing to see the, the result of all of this because it gives people an outlet to be uh surrounded with like I did,
Ken Schmidt
00:26:13 – 00:26:55
individuals, gives people an opportunity to enjoy camaraderie while at the same time expressing their individuality. Look what I’m doing with my bike. Look what I’m doing with my clothes the way I’m wearing the patches on the front of the things that I’m doing to stand out and people always notice and react to that like, wow, that’s so cool. What you did with your jacket. That’s so cool how you customize your bike and upon hearing that, you know, guys’ hearts but I like this. Yeah, I’m, you know, I feel proud of myself. Uh People are reacting to what I’m doing. I like that. Uh In what I’ve always said, I would get up in front of our investors and talk about and I said, you know, where the money is in this business?
Ken Schmidt
00:26:55 – 00:27:48
It’s the same place where money is in any business. It’s how we react to people. If you tell me something, tell me something about your life uh about how you enjoy motorcycles, just tell me about your job and I react like, like, oh, well, that’s so cool. Like, tell me more. That’s awesome. If I, if I’m genuinely interested in you, you like that, all human beings like that. I mean, that’s where it drives social media that we need to have other people react to us, you know, and give us that thumbs up when we’re doing that for people. First of all, it, it delights because folks, we’re just not used to, it used to somebody actually acting like they care about us and are interested in us and are reacting positively to what we’re saying is we can’t help but notice
Ken Schmidt
00:27:48 – 00:28:01
that I like that. So on Saturday morning, if I’m gonna run out and, you know, do some errands, I’m probably gonna include a little hop in and, you know, we stop by the Hurley shop and run in just to get my, that little
Ken Schmidt
00:28:03 – 00:28:16
dopamine release, you know, and a doughnut and just be surrounded by people that are being genuinely nice to me and act like they’re glad that I came in and wow, that’s, that’s a, that’s a potent elixir.
Jeff Bullas
00:28:17 – 00:28:20
So the dealership became almost like a clubhouse,
Ken Schmidt
00:28:21 – 00:28:28
the, the, the focal point of the lifestyle. That’s the way we were where it all happened. So
Jeff Bullas
00:28:28 – 00:28:49
It was part of that. Um Well, bringing people in for not only a doughnut and a coffee and a conversation where you listen and I’m a firm believer, in fact, passionate about being the best listener, I possibly can be and asking the right questions. So I wanna hear your story
Jeff Bullas
00:28:51 – 00:29:38
that excites me when I’m face to face. I’m essentially maybe an introvert, extrovert. I love, I would prefer a quality conversation rather than quantity conversation. So big conferences just horrify me in a sense, even though I’ve spoken about them. And then I go to a smaller conference and I have these and I will choose to have quality conversations. So you’re having quality conversations with the people that are going to buy your bike and are going to talk about your bike. And i’m so one of the best books I’ve read recently is um trying to remember his name, but it’s how to know a person. And I’ve experimented with some of the things he revealed and they’re on top of the other things about how to listen and its uh
Jeff Bullas
00:29:39 – 00:29:53
when you can get someone to reveal their life story to you and they’re a stranger. I found that both liberating for me and you can see them light up. Um And you, you sound like you were doing that for your customers.
Ken Schmidt
00:29:54 – 00:30:51
What’s interesting about that is I was of all places in Lithuania and I’m talking to a professor from Oxford in the UK and we’re talking about this kind of behavioral sociological stuff that, but that businesses can intentionally plug into and do. And I was talking so much about, you know, when we listen to people and react to people, you can, their face always changes it. They could have a serious question, have a problem, but people just kind of light up when they have an opportunity to talk about themselves and what’s important to them. And the guy summed it up so perfectly. It should be a bumper sticker that says that the whole world would approve if we all stopped being interesting. And instead we’re interested if you tell me about yourself. Yeah, that every human being has. That
Ken Schmidt
00:30:52 – 00:30:56
is the same favorite topic of discussion. Me, let me talk about me for a while
Jeff Bullas
00:30:56 – 00:31:38
and it applies to the simple, very, very, uh OK. Core thing about humanity is, you know, dating, getting married is that on the dating scene? If you are interested, then you are much more interesting and because everyone loves to talk about them. So just like you mentioned and, uh I had the best comma given to me by a friend of my partner. She talked about me to my partner. She said Geoff was both interested and interesting. And you put those two together and I feel I said, wow, that’s exactly what I wanna be.
Ken Schmidt
00:31:38 – 00:31:41
But, it isn’t amazing though? If you look at
Ken Schmidt
00:31:43 – 00:32:30
the businesses that you work with, the places that you buy, the places where you shop, the things that you buy online, think about what you were taught in school. Nobody ever talked about this. Nobody ever said, hey, you know, how about instead of when somebody, you know, walks into the business or greets us at the trade show? How about instead of us not immediately going into trying to sell our stuff? Here’s why? Oh, thanks for coming in today. Have you seen, you know, the new product line here? How about if we just stop and take a step back for sex and let’s just see ourselves the way others see us and say, well, what would we want? I just, you know, I just entered your, your trade show with, I entered your space. I met you at a cocktail party.
Ken Schmidt
00:32:31 – 00:33:19
How about just make it about me just for a few seconds or just lead with that? It diffuses everything and makes people instantly comfortable. And the fact that someone is paying attention to me is instantly noticed by 100% of the human race, but we don’t God, we don’t do that. How many times do you call a business? And the first thing you hear is a, first of all computer generated prompts that’s always a downer. Uh, you know, press two for sales, press three for service and then you get music for a half an hour and then those painful moments and your mind is already painted a picture of what that business is and what it’s about and you don’t like it. I don’t like them. I don’t like their proctor. You know, please hold.
Ken Schmidt
00:33:19 – 00:33:50
No, I, I’m in a hurry. I don’t want to please hold or, or you enter the doctor’s office and, and all you see is, you know, the top of someone’s head that’s sitting behind a desk that gives you forms to fill out. Well, we’re, we’re so used to it. We don’t even notice it anymore. But when that doesn’t happen, when you said walking, hey, and somebody lights up or when they’re talking to you on the phone and you just hear this enthusiasm is kind of dripping out of them. Like when you called,
Ken Schmidt
00:33:51 – 00:34:19
when he called Disney God, how are these people so pleasant? This is because they have to be, they’re doing this on purpose and you hear this, it just sounds right. Feels right. Makes you feel you notice immediately and they, then you just ask the obvious question. Why doesn’t everybody do this? Why is it so hard to be passionate, enthusiastic about people instead of, you know, just treating them like an invisible entity that we hope will buy our product.
Jeff Bullas
00:34:20 – 00:35:10
So let’s continue further. So you, you got them in for doughnuts and coffee, you’ve got them coming in and you’ve created a club and a tribe and I suppose to add to the jaw, you’re giving them start to give them merchandise. What I’m just trying to get a feel for when, when did you Harley Davidson? And yourself, the aha moment going ok. This is really working. This being just wanting to hear the story and experiences and the humanization of the customer and their passion for bikes, you know, biking. What was next from the aha moment? And can you remember when you sort of start to say something’s going on here? Because as humans, we go, we have a sense of there’s something going on here and it’s maybe a little bit magical. But can you remember that or did you
Ken Schmidt
00:35:10 – 00:35:30
iii I absolutely can’t remember it because we, there’s a lot of things, you know, in business that are hard to quantify. How do we know specifically what the return is on? Are, are, are bringing our trucks and doing bike demonstrations that even on
Jeff Bullas
00:35:30 – 00:35:31
a return on listening?
Ken Schmidt
00:35:32 – 00:36:25
Exactly. It, it, it’s hard to do. But what started happening uh in relatively short order? Yes, that the, the principal critics in the bike industry that the, the, the main bike magazines of the world and picture, the, the European and Australia ones that are very intensely, uh written, very intensely critical of things they don’t like. Uh and not the most laudatory people, you know, they’re publications written by critics, critics who for decades were never saying anything positive about or at least their companies are too old, the products are outdated, they’re too expensive. Suddenly we’re, we’re, we’re seeing tremendous, think about the effort that the people that the business are making
Ken Schmidt
00:36:26 – 00:37:14
to spread the passion, the joy, the love of motorcycling and, and, and the love of Harley Davidson. This company is obviously kind of changing right in front of us. It’s kind of cool. jeez, you know, bike industry follow, do what they’re doing and we’re like, ok, this is people are noticing it’s working and you know, our sales are going up the that was the big aha moment like, ok, people are people other than just the people working here are, are seeing this reacting to it positively. We need to do more of this. It’s proving to us that doing things like uh budgeting for advertising kind of traditional go to market tactics
Ken Schmidt
00:37:14 – 00:38:00
is not working because it, it, that that was an easy ro I back when we were essentially bankrupt or advertising uh but not selling anything. So what’s the roI on that? Well, how about zero was wasted money because we’re just on there on the page right next to your competitor. So basically, it’s here’s product, here’s product, here’s product. And people said, well, we’re awash in this, there’s tons of product and it all gets kind of confusing and looks alike and uh theirs is cheaper and does the same thing. Well, like dub anybody that’s shopping with their brains instead of their heart would be buying the cheaper stuff. And you know, that was our fault and we’re just doing what everybody else did because that’s what we thought we were supposed to do.
Ken Schmidt
00:38:00 – 00:38:31
So as he, as he, as this, as the business is becoming more, more humanized and more social, we said, look, we have to do more of this. This needs to be the emphasis of the business. We need to build the entire business process around being visible, plugged into and listening to the people that we serve and, and hope to serve. And we looked at and this is something every business on the planet. Jeff should do it if you’re a one person business or 100,000 person conglomerate. I say
Ken Schmidt
00:38:33 – 00:39:07
We need to answer three questions. What do people say about us? What do we want them to say about us and what are we doing to get them to say this about us and what we found? And what most people find is that uh what people say about us is this e either negative in our case, it was negative. They are saying a lot of negative stuff. Companies antiquated old, you know, associated with criminal gangs, uh just preposterous, grossly exaggerated stuff. Uh
Ken Schmidt
00:39:07 – 00:39:44
And what are we saying about ourselves? Oh, you know, it’s, it’s quality, it’s well made and it’s craftsmanship and uh look at the engineering and look at the ride ability and the reliability and the MPG and the MPH and the horsepower, uh all of which is really great data, but virtually non distinguishable from what competitor stuff was. Right? Because it’s two wheels and a motor and a seat in a set of handlebars. You can’t get much more scientific. Then, then unless you have a phd in engineering, uh what we need to do is that we need to change our vocabulary
Ken Schmidt
00:39:45 – 00:40:34
because if we know that someone is talking about us, we want people using the same differentiating language for us. So yeah, they know we make motorcycles that couldn’t be more obvious. And yeah, they’re really good and yeah, they’re historic. Very true. But you know, BMW can say the exact same thing Honda could say the exact same thing you guys have been around forever too. If we’re saying what our competitors say, we’re essentially commoditizing ourselves and endorsing them, right? There’s nothing memorable in talking about, you know, we have such good quality here and we’re so committed to our customers here because that’s what everybody says. Yeah. So let’s craft a different vernacular. Let’s pick 3 to 5 words
Ken Schmidt
00:40:35 – 00:41:31
that we can weave into all of our go to market stuff, weave into our conversations that we have with customers, potential customers so that when other people talk about us, these are the words that pop into their minds. Uh So literally in, in one day, we came up with essentially a five pillar vocabulary of, of the words, lifestyle, freedom, camaraderie, individuality and rebellion, let’s position our business around this lifestyle. Being the driving word. We don’t sell motorcycles, we sell lifestyle. Everybody else in the industry sells stuff. We sell a lifestyle. That’s the getting together, that’s the socializing, it’s whatever picture forms in your brain. When you hear a word like lifestyle
Ken Schmidt
00:41:32 – 00:42:18
and the people that I remember like the Wall Street crowd, the investment across say, why are you saying that? And I said, all right, do you think you’re going to forget it? But we’re a lifestyle company and they did remember the freedom. We sell freedom. But what does that mean? Whatever you want it to mean? Right. Camaraderie, getting together with your friends. What’s the opposite end of camaraderie? Individuality being able to express yourself in front of your friends and stand out and be different and rebellion against what everybody else in the industry is doing. And when we weave those words, I defy any human being to enter a Harley dealership and not hear and see the word freedom mentioned almost immediately or lifestyle. Uh any business can do this.
Jeff Bullas
00:42:19 – 00:42:35
So that obviously turned up in taglines. So there was a famous tagline I think that Harley did come up with um he’s come up with maybe several, quite a few over the years. What was the tagline you used back then to kick this off. Can you remember?
Ken Schmidt
00:42:35 – 00:43:26
Well, first there was, uh, well, put it this way when the company was in trouble, the tagline was motorcycles by the people for the people. Uh, which sounded cool and it was kind of cool but it was very product centric. Yep. Uh, then, uh, more than a machine which started playing to the, like we, we wanna not just be known for the motorcycle itself. It’s, it’s more than that, it’s everything that we do to support the motorcycle community. Uh But then most of the taglines actually disappeared where we would just put a early logo on something and maybe like one word next to it, like or like freedom or let freedom ring, that type of uh uh
Ken Schmidt
00:43:26 – 00:44:03
first of all to play with that language, that differentiating language, but also to do something in a way that people see it and would immediately identify it with, with us. So it, it is, there have never been a lot of big taglines in the last 30 positioning lines yet or maybe uh you know, something cute uh on an ad somewhere. But that’s that, that’s never been or at least hasn’t been for, for years. One of the driving points of the business that’s come up with these taglines. It’s, yeah, let’s just keep focusing on what we do. Well,
Jeff Bullas
00:44:04 – 00:44:32
so you’ve, so at the dealership you’ve built, you come up with these five key words, which have become the five pillars of the soul of Harley Davidson, because you’re no longer selling a product. You are now touching people’s souls for wanting to have these things that bring them joy. Because camaraderie brings joy, lifestyle brings joy. Rebellion can be a place of joy.
Ken Schmidt
00:44:32 – 00:44:38
Absolutely freedom. Individuality is a huge one for all of the above.
Jeff Bullas
00:44:39 – 00:45:05
So in other words, you’ve almost touched everything that makes us human, which is a, especially in a world of technology, man versus machine. A I and Mai and man now. Um so I, I think we’re at a very, very interesting pivotal point in human evolution where we maintain our human soul while the machine seems to be doing almost everything for us.
Ken Schmidt
00:45:07 – 00:45:50
And what, what’s nice about that though is that because we’re, we, we’ve all been lulled into this sense of uh I don’t wanna say complacency, but it’s almost like normalcy that, that all of the technology is so woven into everything that we do that we sort of lose sight of the fact that we’re, we rapidly lost our humanity for, you know, mo most people, the only way that they get validation is on their phone because somebody gave a thumb up or a like on one of their social media. Oh, so humans are starved for validation. They, they star for, you know, human touch for a human relationship to, to be able to talk live to other people to be reacted to
Ken Schmidt
00:45:51 – 00:46:32
uh we seek it out. We notice immediately when it happens and, and, and that’s, you know, one of the things I talked to business leaders about is look, if we know people are hungry for this and they know they’re not used to getting it, why shouldn’t we be the ones that give it to them? Why shouldn’t we be doing that for our employees not treat them like hired hands that are hard to keep as be a source of delight for them so that they come back and, and tell their friends and feel like they’re part of something big and that they’re appreciated for who they are and what they do and what they bring to the table. Uh All of those things are, are little human behavioral triggers
Ken Schmidt
00:46:32 – 00:46:38
that we can, if we decide that we want to do that, we could put an emphasis on doing that for people.
Jeff Bullas
00:46:39 – 00:46:46
So in other words, what we’re trying to do and hardly trying to do is trying to use technology to make us more human.
Ken Schmidt
00:46:46 – 00:47:23
Well, what the, what the, the, the, the technology is always gonna be there and what, what technology can do is it can teach, you know, it can inform us of something, it can show us something new. Uh you know, let us know something is happening. Uh and that’s maybe 20-25% of the equation. OK? Somebody’s now aware of us or what we’re doing. But anything beyond that, uh, if it, I mean, look at company websites, every, the, the faster I can get you to hit that buy button, the better. That’s all we’ve been conditioned to do.
Ken Schmidt
00:47:24 – 00:48:02
Uh, there, there’s no width, there’s no warmth, there’s no humanity, there’s no sense you belong here. We’re glad you’re here and you hit a buy button, uh, and you buy that product and it shows up at your door two days later, but you don’t, you can’t even remember who you got it from. You got what you paid for. Uh And that somewhere in that business, you know, they got a little check mark because they made us, you know, they made another sale. But yeah, but the person who doesn’t remember it because nothing happened. Uh So did, did we really win here? You know, because our next purchase to that person is gonna cost as much as this one did because we have to go out and find them again.
Jeff Bullas
00:48:03 – 00:48:31
Yeah, it’s um interesting in terms of how do we weave more humanity into everything we do? And I think, yeah, and it’s something I think about a lot, especially because I work in technology. Um and I’m intrigued by the intersection of the machine and man, a I and man, and I’m using man, you know, in politically incorrect way,
Jeff Bullas
00:48:34 – 00:48:34
but
Ken Schmidt
00:48:34 – 00:48:35
I know what you mean.
Jeff Bullas
00:48:35 – 00:48:36
All of
Ken Schmidt
00:48:36 – 00:48:36
us
Jeff Bullas
00:48:37 – 00:49:09
and human maybe you could use, but I digress the reality for me is how do we, how do we make technology work for us and make us more human. And I, I watch younger people and everyone actually walking down the street and they’re not saying hi anymore. They’ve just got their head on the phone. They’ve got their ear pods in. So you actually can’t say anything to anyone as they walk down the street, like, hi, because they’re not going to hear you. Um They gather around a dinner table and you watch them and there’ll be five people looking at their phone, there is no conversation intermittent
Jeff Bullas
00:49:09 – 00:49:29
and they are looking for validation. I think that’s a very interesting word you’re brought up with is actually look at me, I’m important and by you inviting people into the shed of Harley Davidson, the tent of Harley Davidson is that you are validating the humanity you belong to. You are important. Um And we’re hearing you,
Ken Schmidt
00:49:29 – 00:50:20
Let me share something because when I talk, uh it could be at a college, university, an investment group somewhere and they’ll, people will always say, oh, you know, we I’ve read case studies about Harley. So I know it’s a great manufacturing story or I’ve read a case study. It’s a great marketing story and I said, but you’re forgetting the umbrella above all of that. Uh Yeah, it’s a great marketing story. Yeah, it’s a great product store, but it’s a great human behavior story. First, we learned how to plug into what attracts people. And, I was the perfect example. And I said, what, what do all Harley owners to if you see a guy on a bike or a guy on a bike sitting at a red light or at a stop sign,
Ken Schmidt
00:50:20 – 00:50:56
If they’re on a Harley, what are they doing? They rev the rev, their engine. I do, we all do it. I’m not moving but revving my engine anywhere serves absolutely no practical purpose. Who said, well, why are we doing this? And the answer is really simple. This is we’re talking to you. The engine is loud. We’re saying 37, look at me, look at me and when you do look, you know, even if it’s just for a second, sooner or later, you’re gonna look like my God. What’s that noise over there? You look, when we see you see us, our eyes meet for a millisecond
Ken Schmidt
00:50:57 – 00:51:24
dopamine is released in our brain. Somebody just noticed me, you know, when I’m in my car, people don’t look at me when I’m walking down the street. They, you know, but when I’m in here and I do this, they look, I like the way that feels, roll up to the next light and do it again. You know, proving that we always, you know, anything that delights us, we return to until it fails to delight us. That’s why we as a business, what are we here to do?
Ken Schmidt
00:51:24 – 00:52:10
We’re here to serve. No, we’re here to be a source of delight for people. Because if we do that, they’ll come back for more. And if I’m the leader of a business, what’s my job? My job is to get people to follow me and do what I tell them to do. But my job is to delight them. So they see in me, uh something rich, something human, something rewarding that this person understands me. This person listens, I’m way more likely to follow and return to this person because he or she is making that effort, that human effort to be a source of delight for me. And I delight people by validating, making them feel welcome and special and amazing. I’ll be at a tech company in California and I’ll be walking down the hall with the people running the business.
Ken Schmidt
00:52:11 – 00:53:01
While other employees walk, they just walk right past and don’t say anything. I said you have to acknowledge everybody. You just walk by 10 people that are gonna go home tonight and say they saw the CEO or they saw the boss or would they say nothing? I mean, you, you’ve got all of these chances to, to do that for people. Hey, good to see you. Whatever that is, people notice that the boss looked at me, the boss spoke to me, the boss talked to me on the elevator, you know, asked me about me and what I did this weekend, she’s so nice here. What a great guy he is. Oh, that’s what moves the needle or in, people come back. It takes fences down, it removes barriers, it removes fear. You know, it makes us approachable. But does it happen? Not enough?
Jeff Bullas
00:53:03 – 00:53:32
No, it doesn’t happen enough. And, um, you have to go from a small town to a large town to realize that not enough people are saying hi as they walk past on the way to the beach or the way to the coffee shop, eyes are averted. Um, and it’s very obvious if you go from small town to big town and it’s that, that’s the most simple form of validation. I see you. So from this
Ken Schmidt
00:53:34 – 00:53:37
not invisible anymore,
Jeff Bullas
00:53:37 – 00:54:14
I’m not invisible because we get lost. If we, we feel lost. If we are invisible, the worst thing you can do to a person is to make them invisible and you make them an outcast. So let’s quickly, um, more conscious of your time. But the dr so how did you then layer what you did at Harley? And then another question I’m curious about is how do you apply, how do you apply this to others? Is there a process you take companies through? It might be loose, it might be strict um, to actually
Jeff Bullas
00:54:15 – 00:54:33
make them visible and do the things you’ve done at Harley. So, number one, what, how did you take it to you know, X, you know 10 X Harley, how did you do that the last few steps? And then how do you, how can other people take what you learned at Harley and apply it to their own business?
Ken Schmidt
00:54:34 – 00:55:13
Two questions, let me answer the second one first because it, it, it, it, it’s always top of mind with people and you know, when I go in to work with them at a, at a business, you, I’ll say, what do you want to be known for? You know, what do you want people to say about this business? And what? So one of two things will happen. First of all, I’m asking the CEO or the person running the business, I say, well, if someone is talking to, you know, customers talking about you right now, what would you want them to be saying? And the CEO said, well, you know, I’ll put his hands behind his head and stare at the ceiling. Well, I guess I want, and I said, you guess you mean you haven’t thought about this,
Ken Schmidt
00:55:13 – 00:55:53
you don’t know what you want the reputation of this business to be because the reputation of the business is a reflection of you. Uh, so we as the people that are leading this business, we need consistency on this. What do we want to be known for when people talk about this business? Because if we don’t have that, our employees certainly don’t have it. Which means our sales people don’t have it. Which means that the market is never going to know who we are because guess what we don’t. And more often than not just that, that is one of those head thumpers for people. But my God, we never thought of that. I said that’s because you too focused on doing what you do
Ken Schmidt
00:55:53 – 00:56:34
and being more efficient about what you do and not looking at your business the way an outsider does. You think you’re great? You think you’re so good at what you do and you should, but somebody who doesn’t know you that’s looking in from the outside is immediately going to compare you to other people that do other businesses that do the same thing. So now what have you got? Right. That, that’s when the head scratching starts and that’s when they start saying, well, jeez. Yeah, maybe we’re not doing this, right. Yes. So what you’re not doing is you’re not competing, you’re, you’re, you’re going to market and doing what you do. Let’s look at what would happen in this business in this company if people knew you for who you were.
Ken Schmidt
00:56:35 – 00:57:05
So you were consistent, first of all, in your messaging of what the business is and, and, and why you’re here doing what it is that you do for people. Let’s get really consistent on that first. But then let’s also look at what kind of behavior we need to exhibit in front of people to bring our position to life to make us more human. And they say, well, you know, we don’t often, you know, speak with her, get in front of customers. I said, well, well, who’s answering the phones?
Ken Schmidt
00:57:07 – 00:57:56
Who’s, who’s the customer service rep, who’s the receptionist, who, who’s talking to people? Ok. Well, what, what kind of training are they getting? Right. And a lot of times it’s, you know, hello. Thank you for calling. You know, please don’t listen to bangs. You said in that second, the entire humanity of this business has been exposed. Uh One person becomes the they that, you know, they stink or they’re awesome. They’re amazing based on that one, that one human being. And, and I said this is, I know that it’s kind of a foreign concept to people. But I said, I know this is what you don’t think about, but this is what you, you need to think about. If you’re gonna put humanity first lead with a more human face to put a human face behind the business. And as a leader of the business,
Ken Schmidt
00:57:57 – 00:58:47
every employee that works here. If there’s 10 or if there’s 10,000, everything they do is a mirror reflection of the attitudes and behavior of the leaders, the people running the business, they model you, they do what you do, they say what you say, they say what you say, they say how you say it. We all do. Uh So think of the impact it has on the organization here. If you are very, visibly, very, very passionately leading with humanity, being human, first being a source of delight, instead of simply being, you know, a boss or a leader or telling people what to do and watching how people react. And then when you see how they react and it’s positive, you’ll say jeez, we, we need to align our whole culture around this. So that,
Jeff Bullas
00:58:48 – 00:58:58
so that comes back to the three questions that you mentioned. In other words, what a customer is saying about you? What do you want them to say about you and how do we get them to say that about us?
Ken Schmidt
00:58:58 – 00:59:47
Yeah, because this is, and when people are talking about you, first of all, again, they always use the pronoun they, which means they’re, they’re uh you know, what does that company do? You know, make cars? Now, they say they are great at something, they’re horrible at something. So they’re talking about your people. That’s a reflection of your culture. That’s the job of the leader to determine William. What do we want this culture to be? Let’s make it that and we can do that. We can ingrain that into the DNA of the business. It just, it, needs to become part of our business process here. That’s the job of leaders is to create that environment, not to delegate responsibility of that to somebody else. You know, the HR department or the sales department because we all know that doesn’t work. So,
Jeff Bullas
00:59:48 – 01:00:10
So do you take people through like what you did at Harley in one day, come up with five keyword pillars, you take them through that process as well. So that sounds to me like one of your majors. But could be quite quick but distilling what you stand for and put that into just a few words.
Ken Schmidt
01:00:10 – 01:00:56
What, what’s amazing is, is what I, what I will do is I will say, ok, give me, you know, who are your top five or six competitors or whatever? And you just put all of them, just punch up their website and put their home screen up on the page. Let’s look at how they describe themselves and let’s find the common words on every page and you’ll, you’ll see, you know, quality, uh, uh, commitment to customer satisfaction or, or, or your rates or data if it’s a bank or something in financial services, I’m like, are you starting to see a pattern here and see what’s the pattern that everybody’s saying the same thing you go. That’s right now. So let’s put yours up there. Oh, you’re doing it too. Uh This is your, this is the face of your business to the public.
Ken Schmidt
01:00:56 – 01:01:35
Is that what people want people to think? They’re the same as everybody else. No, I said, then this is all they’re saying is what you’re going to stop saying they’ve defined their pillars of quality and customer satisfaction and our people make the difference and we’re customer centric and all that when that’s what they’re saying, that’s their cue. They’re telling you what not to stand for, what not to say. And then they said, well, let’s come up with and, and that, that’s ideation, it’s creativity. Let’s just come up with some different language to describe who we are able
Jeff Bullas
01:01:35 – 01:01:38
to describe what we do and then you’ll be memorable.
Ken Schmidt
01:01:39 – 01:02:11
First of all, people aren’t used to hearing that. But uh it, i if they like the freedom word with Harley or lifestyle, as people hear it enough, it just becomes automatic and, and that’s what you want because when the, the customer is repeating, they’re describing you the way you would and using one, you know, or two or more. If you really like it, that, that language that you use, that’s, you know, that’s what, you know, you’re, you’re wholly differentiated in the marketplace, in the marketplace. People know you for who you are.
Jeff Bullas
01:02:12 – 01:02:17
Yeah, let’s be human and let’s show that visibly,
Ken Schmidt
01:02:18 – 01:02:43
Please be human. God. If you have to see one more, really bad, really bland, really predictable website. Let me look at packages that show up at your house, Jeff. What would it have taken? Because I say it all the time we all do it. We all buy things from businesses we’ve never heard of, right? We go online and because we’re gonna buy something, a, a belt,
Ken Schmidt
01:02:44 – 01:03:26
then you’ll hit your Google or your search thing and you’ll find whoever’s willing to sell you that one that you’re looking for. You know what, the lowest price, whether you’ve ever heard of him or not. Boop. You hit the buy button and the next day the brown box is right there by the front door where you expected it to be and you open it up and what’s inside the box, the thing that you bought and you don’t remember where it came from. You don’t care, right? It’s, you got what you paid for it. And I always tell the best, what would it have hurt for you to insert something into that package, that box on the outside. Anything that would have made this a more memorable and surprising thing for the person that opened it.
Ken Schmidt
01:03:26 – 01:04:13
A little, a little wit, a little warmth, a little humanity, a little sign. Thank you. Note from the person who stuck it in, you know, hey, Jeff, I hope you love this. Let us know how we’re doing, you know, quick. Somebody took two seconds to do that. It’s hard to not notice it. But does anybody do it? A white guy and the guy, somebody does something that’s a little bit witty that makes you, hey, that’s kind of funny. Or that’s kind of cool. Or a little, a little pack of cookies in the, but whatever that is, is somebody made a little extra effort beyond what was expected uh You remembered, but you don’t remember the other, you know, 99 things you bought that month. But for whatever reason that stood out, like, because somebody made an effort.
Jeff Bullas
01:04:14 – 01:04:34
So Harley Davidson has been a big success for you and the team you worked with. What are maybe another couple of successes that maybe surprised you, but maybe not surprised you that um following this approach that we’ve talked about, um, have succeeded and, uh, 10 X of business, whatever it was.
Ken Schmidt
01:04:35 – 01:05:43
I, for example, am absolutely enthralled. Uh Well, I love to fish. I’m a fisherman. That’s one of my favorite hobbies, right? And that is a, sadly, it’s a declining industry. People aren’t getting involved in the sport. There’s a million manufacturers making everything from fishing rods to reels to lions to lures you name it. And there’s a company in Wisconsin called Saint Croix Rod. Family owned business, kind of a smaller niche player for decades that is now known in the industry of tremendous commoditization. You know, every fishing rod looks like a fishing rod. And, you know, a lot of stuff is coming from overseas. In fact, most of it is very, very competitively priced stuff. They built their entire, uh, the soul of the business now is that you can, you can talk to anybody there.
Ken Schmidt
01:05:44 – 01:06:35
If you call with a question, you want to ask about a good, uh, good place to go fishing. You have a question of how to do something, where to go. You’ve got a problem with your equipment, with your rod. You’re going to hear the friendliest human beings you’ve ever talked to. If something broke, they’re going to have another one shipped and on its way to you almost immediately, their largest go to market expense is their customer service. It’s giving people new stuff or anything that fails to perform and doing it in a way that is so overtly friendly and unexpectedly gracious that their market has just shot straight up. And I go to industry events and you wear, you know, one of their shirts or hats to say c everybody. Oh, yeah, it does.
Ken Schmidt
01:06:36 – 01:06:39
They’re doing a phenomenal job. And I said, well, how do you know that?
Jeff Bullas
01:06:39 – 01:06:42
What’s the name of that brand? Saint
Ken Schmidt
01:06:42 – 01:06:42
Croix?
Jeff Bullas
01:06:43 – 01:06:43
Saint Croix,
Ken Schmidt
01:06:45 – 01:07:45
Saint Croix Rod. And they’re doing Gangbusters business. Uh, you can use that, that, that’s a consumer business and you can use things like in the, in the business to business sphere. Uh, uh uh, uh, an enormous metal forgery forge. Excuse me? Metal Forge in Illinois. Yep. Absolutely phenomenal business. And what, what they are able to do, they, they’ve taken something where they produce enormous pieces of metal, uh, you know, things that are going to go on naval ship, you know, the, a giant gear for a piece of mining equipment and the gear is, is bigger than your house stuff that you would never think about. The company’s called Scot Forge. Scot Forge.
Ken Schmidt
01:07:45 – 01:08:24
Again, they realize that this is a commoditized business base. They do a tremendous amount of, you know, government contracting where everything is, you know, traditionally thrown up to bid where the buyers don’t care about where it’s coming from. Have now tremendously visible, tremendously passionate, The leaders of that business, the every meeting that they show up at. Uh if they’re doing lobbying in Washington DC, if they’re at a trade show event, they wear a tartan sport coat, a plaid coat, you think? Well, that’s kind of corny.
Ken Schmidt
01:08:25 – 01:09:12
Yeah, it is kind of corny except 100% of people in the metal forging business. Know when the Scot Forge people will win. Everybody in Washington knows when the Scott Forage people are the, the world’s nicest people because that’s what the leaders, leaders of the business. A great guy named John Case says this is what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna be the most visible people and we are God knows we’re visible because we’ve got the jackets on when people approach us. So they ask about the jacket. That’s an opportunity for us to not talk about what we do, but talk about who we are and people and watch people react and the, the, the same thing, they are easily the most recognized firm. Now in a ridiculously commoditized old school market space.
Jeff Bullas
01:09:15 – 01:09:31
So this is, this is fascinating. I just love it because we’re humanizing business, which um and, and for me, the tagline, we use how to win a business and life. In other words, business is not something separate from life. And for me, life is not separate from business.
Ken Schmidt
01:09:31 – 01:09:34
Thank you for saying that because I, and I wish everybody looked at it that way.
Jeff Bullas
01:09:34 – 01:10:17
Yeah. So, but how do you weave that? And you’ve actually challenged me to think about that more and because we’re a digital business, so podcasting newsletters and content and we’re leaning more into the intersection of A I and humanity which I’m intensely curious about. Um, and it’s actually becoming compelling because I believe that it can make us more human if we use it in the right way. I hope so. Yeah, I, that’s my, that’s my aim is to not for A I to replace us, but to enhance us. So,
Ken Schmidt
01:10:17 – 01:11:03
right to God’s ear, I hope, I hope, I hope he’s listening to that because too many other people, everyone’s so afraid of it now, which is understandable. We, we, we fear what we don’t understand. But if you ask, if you say A I to most people, they mean, well, it’s going to, that’s going to take all our jobs, it’s going to destroy jobs. And you know, they said that when cars and motorcycles replaced horses and when tractors replaced horses and, and what computers appeared, everything’s gonna replace something, the internet appeared. Oh, that’s gonna take, take jobs away because now people can buy directly instead of going to, you know, physical brick and mortar. E every threat has turned out to be a benefit instead of a threat. And I think the same thing will happen with a, I assuming that people,
Ken Schmidt
01:11:04 – 01:11:06
yeah, treated properly. Yeah.
Jeff Bullas
01:11:06 – 01:11:38
Well, that’s sort of becoming a bit of a mission for me. So, um, um, just two questions to finish off. It’s been an absolute pleasure having this fireside chat and hearing the stories behind the story of Harley Davidson. Yeah. And I’ve got two questions. Number one is, what are the two or three biggest takeaways you’ve learned over the decades, um, advising Harley Davidson, others that you think all business owners should lean into,
Ken Schmidt
01:11:39 – 01:12:25
uh, first of all. And, and I don’t know if you probably see on the back of my phone, you see the letters are and, and that’s on my phone for a reason. It’s on my laptop for a reason. It’s on a little placard, uh, in my office. And that is to remind me that any time I’m talking to someone, I’m about to speak with someone, I shouldn’t be thinking about how I get this person, the information that they want or how do I answer this person’s question in the most efficient way possible? It’s, it’s, or what do I want this person to remember and repeat, what do I want them to remember about this conversation about me and repeat as in, tell somebody else about or come back for more of. So you’re a leader and like it’s the guy. Well, it’s the,
Ken Schmidt
01:12:26 – 01:12:32
the c suite people walking down the hallway at work are coming up in the elevator and you’re surrounded by
Ken Schmidt
01:12:34 – 01:13:25
people that work with you and for you that report your business. Well, what do you want them to remember about you and tell other people that’s gonna be 100% based on what you say to them and how you make them feel when they’re in your presence. The effort that you’ve made to do that or not, most of us choose not to. Let’s just answer the question and move on. And I think jeez, these people have, uh these people can and will build my reputation and the reputation of this business if I choose to do that, uh, most choose not to. And then most also the notion of Mr or Mrs businessperson, please don’t focus on making your business known for what you do, make it known for who you are because that’s the only competitive advantage that anybody has anymore.
Ken Schmidt
01:13:26 – 01:14:11
The world’s commoditized, you wanna be known for the human qualities that your business has. And the best way to bring that out is by being more human, focused on delighting, being interested instead of interesting, validating people being that source of validation for people. It’s model behavior when leaders do it, their employers do it. When you’re doing it in the cubicle, the person next to you hears you, you’re doing that and here’s how people are reacting. They start to model that too. It softens us, makes us look more, you know, warm and approachable and it ultimately makes our business more competitive. It’s kind of stop doing things the way you’ve always done them. Uh, because anybody can do that now.
Jeff Bullas
01:14:12 – 01:14:21
So there’s that, uh, sentence which I call back occasionally or remember occasionally is people forget what you said, but they will not forget how you make them feel.
Ken Schmidt
01:14:22 – 01:14:58
Uh, it’s so true. It’s almost a bumper sticker, but it’s absolutely true. But what I also say is that customers don’t forgive mistakes but friends do. But when people, when they can put that human side on your business and you’ve done something and they feel like they know you, they might not know anybody personally but they feel like they know you, you know, that these people try hard, uh, you know, and they made a mistake, forgive him. You know, we’ll move on. But if I don’t know you and you made a mistake, well, now you let me down and I’m gonna tell everybody that, you know, you’re terrible.
Jeff Bullas
01:15:00 – 01:15:02
Yeah, I love that. That’s great.
Jeff Bullas
01:15:04 – 01:15:26
So the last question is, um, this comes back to what brings you joy. We’ve talked about reducing joy for customers and making them memorable. So if you don’t have to work, you do this for free. What brings Ken Schmidt joy
Ken Schmidt
01:15:26 – 01:16:06
take out the obvious, you know, family and home and things like that. But I love adventure. I love being outside. I love riding my motorcycle. I love fishing. I like standing in a river and fly fishing. I like standing in a boat and fishing. I love to hike. I love to hunt. I love to, you know, view nature, anything that’s outside and involves movement. I like mountain biking a lot. I know you’re a bicyclist. Uh, it, there’s, there’s something about being outside between a bunch of trees on a path previously pedaling a bicycle that just does something for me.
Jeff Bullas
01:16:07 – 01:16:31
I get that. I’ve just bought myself a mountain bike so I can explore fire trails and mountain trails with my brother. And also one of the joys I have is, I don’t understand why people cycle inside. I just can’t, I need to be outside even if it’s slightly dangerous. And I have been hit by a car right and shoulder.
Ken Schmidt
01:16:32 – 01:16:41
Oh, you’re not supposed to do that. You know what it probably said on the first page of the owner’s manual for your bicycle. There’s probably a warning about that. And you could.
Jeff Bullas
01:16:41 – 01:16:53
Exactly. So that’s, yeah. So, but as part of that, do you like combining a bit of solitude along with camaraderie and,
Ken Schmidt
01:16:53 – 01:17:32
oh, absolutely. And, and it’s being with like minded people, you know, I was just, I was just out in Montana fishing last week. A bunch of great friends, some of whom I’ve met through motorcycling, some of whom became motorcyclists as a result of meeting. Either way I became a fly fisherman as a result of being with them. And, but there’s, there’s nothing better than doing something together that you enjoy a physical activity, fishing, biking, whatever that might be. And then, you know, having a bourbon next to the fireplace at night when the stories get told and the uh the laughter gets louder. That’s, that to me is as good as it gets.
Jeff Bullas
01:17:32 – 01:17:52
That’s great. Thank you, Ken for sharing your stories and also revealing, you know, corners of your soul and what brings you joy. And uh it’s been an absolute joy for me to actually have this conversation. And um I’m grateful. Thank you very much, Ken for uh talking with me.
Ken Schmidt
01:17:53 – 01:17:56
Oh, I’m grateful that you, that you’re happy. This is a tremendous amount of fun.
Jeff Bullas
01:17:56 – 01:18:09
It’s good. Have a great evening because I know it’s heading to yours and my day is unfolding. So, thank you, Ken. It’s, it’s been, it’s been great. It’s been awesome and it’s been a joy, but
Ken Schmidt
01:18:10 – 01:18:20
It’s fun for me too. And if you know, you have ever, you know, have a, have a question. I just want to bounce something off of somebody by all means, you, you, you know how to find me and please do
Jeff Bullas
01:18:20 – 01:18:22
I think I will.
Ken Schmidt
01:18:22 – 01:18:49
All right and, and, and, and good luck with that. Uh put the human face on a III I, we, we need more people looking at it from that perspective. Instead of just the perspective of this is gonna help us lower our costs. This is gonna help us sell more stuff. So yeah, there’s, there’s Yeah, II I, I’m coming in and I say let’s have it be a good thing for us
Jeff Bullas
01:18:49 – 01:19:01
and that’s, I think that’s becoming our mission. So um let’s see how we can do that. So it’s good about wanting to do this. Then it’s work. Then the hard work is how do we do this? So it’s good.
Ken Schmidt
01:19:02 – 01:19:02
Good man.
Jeff Bullas
01:19:03 – 01:19:04
Thanks Ken.
Ken Schmidt
01:19:04 – 01:19:06
Thank you. Take care.