Discover Why Voice-Over Marketing is so Powerful (Episode 126)

Jeff Bullas

00:00:06 - 00:00:45

Hi everyone and welcome to The Jeff Bullas Show. Today I have with me, Jodi Krangle. Now, Jody has been a voice actor since 2007 and when you hear her speak you realize why because she's got this lovely voice and has worked with clients from major brands all over the world including Dell, BBVA and Kraft. She's also a singer, I suppose you need a good voice for that as well. And has put her own album of jazz, blues and traditional tunes at jodykranglemusic.com. Over the years, and doing what she does, she's learned a lot about sound and how it influences people. Her podcast on this subject is also called Audio Branding.

Welcome to the show, Jody. It's great to have you here.

Jodi Krangle

00:00:46 - 00:00:49

Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Jeff Bullas

00:00:50 - 00:01:36

So we haven't had a voice expert on this show before. And let's go back to the beginning and how you got to be a voice over expert and also discovered the importance of voice in marketing. We want to explore that a little bit further because we talk a lot about video marketing. We talk about SEO. We talk about digital marketing, but maybe we could explain the power of voice and sound to help a brand promote itself. So Jodi, where did all this voice, I suppose product branding voice expertise, when this voice thing start that you got intrigued by and tell us a bit about your story.

Jodi Krangle

00:01:38 - 00:03:17

Well I started back in ‘95, ‘96 volunteering my time at the Canadian National Institute for the blind. So I was reading articles on to reel-to-reel tape at the time. And yeah, way back in the day and I actually enjoyed the tech of it as much as I did the actual voicing. So I guess I kind of had the bug bit at that kind of moment and really enjoyed working there. But it took me a while from that point to actually get into the voiceover. And I was doing internet marketing and search engine optimization for a number of years when I learned how to promote a website I had on songwriting on a dime with no money. So yeah, I learned how to do that and then decided I was going to help other people do that and did that for a while until Google became it. And the only search tension left pretty much and I got really bored and things tend to happen when I get bored. So yeah, I decided that I was going to do something else. And that day I just decided, okay, time to focus on the voice over. So because I was already self employed, it was just a switch of focus and one day I was doing internet marketing and the next day I was doing voiceover and I had a lot to learn. So it wasn't like I was making money right from the start but it probably took about 2.5 years before I was making the same amount of money that I had been making doing internet marketing and then it just went from there.

Jeff Bullas

00:03:18 - 00:03:26

So you doing any internet marketing and just got bored, you said I'm just going to do voiceover, start a voice over business.

Jodi Krangle

00:03:27 - 00:03:29

Pretty much. Yeah.

Jeff Bullas

00:03:29 - 00:03:37

Okay, so it wasn't a side hustle, it was just okay, let's see if I can make some money out of this. So how did you pay for your life while you're doing this?

Jodi Krangle

00:03:37 - 00:04:33

Well, I had the website still going on, so The Muse’s Muse was accepting a little bit of advertising revenue, so it was accepting banner ads. And I had a like a, I don't know, there was like 8000 people on a mailing list and stuff like this when emails still worked. And you know, I had people advertising and who were related to the songwriting industry and that was a certain amount of money that was coming in, that was sort of keeping me level, keeping me from not having a roof over my head. And my husband was also doing some work at the time too, he was doing internet marketing because he'd sort of taken over from me and had his own clients. So we were both working at home. Yeah, and so I had a little bit of help that way, but I mean I gotta say like those early years were really lean.

Jeff Bullas

00:04:34 - 00:04:45

So what was your marketing methods to try and get clients? I’m always intrigued by it because you need leads, you need to convert those leads into clients. So what was your marketing have you done? Digital marketing?

Jodi Krangle

00:04:46 - 00:06:03

Yeah, definitely having a website was front and foremost for me, I wanted to make sure that people could find me. So having a good URL was very key. Having the key words in my URL was really important. And yeah, and then beyond that I did some research on the industry. I had to do a lot of research because I didn't know what I didn't know. And I found a message board and asked around on the message board for, you know, how people figured this out. And I was directed to some what they call pay to place, directories that you can list yourself on and have people send you auditions and you either get a job or you don't, and then you work for that client through the directory or not through the directory.

At the time, it was a lot easier to make those clients mine instead of the directory making them their clients. And that's changed over the years, unfortunately. But a lot of my early clients are from those directories. So you know, you get your start somewhere and you get demos which was really important and you get coaching, which again is really important. And yeah, it kind of escalated from there.

Jeff Bullas

00:06:04 - 00:06:14

So you've had directories back then. So I suppose selling your expertise now has moved to platforms a lot, like UpWork and freelancer.com.

Jodi Krangle

00:06:15 - 00:06:36

Actually, no, nowadays, no, I don't use any of those anymore. Nowadays, people are finding me on my website and I have regular clients that keep coming back and then those clients refer me to other people, which, you know, and then social media, of course, right, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter.

Jeff Bullas

00:06:37 - 00:06:42

So do you have, so is that word of mouth has become your most important marketing tool?

Jodi Krangle

00:06:43 - 00:06:53

Definitely referrals. Doing a good job for someone and then having them say, oh, she did such a great job, you should use Jody, you know, yeah, that's really helpful.

Jeff Bullas

00:06:54 - 00:07:17

So in terms of there's just you and of course there's only, you've only got one voice. So how do you leverage you in terms of your business, is there any way leverage or is it basically you are charging a set rate? Like do you scale through voice training classes? Is there anything you do along those lines and not?

Jodi Krangle

00:07:18 - 00:09:39

Well, the way that voice over services work as far as providing the voice for a certain commercial or corporate narration or a podcast intro or outro, you're usually not selling your voice by the hour, you're usually selling it like a license for like a piece of music. So it's actually, it really depends on where it's geographically going to be heard, for how long it's going to be heard whether it's TV, radio, online, whether it's just non-broadcast, it's going to be on the company website or their social media, whether it's like a pre-roll for YouTube, you know, all sorts of different things. And basically there's a big difference between paid advertising and non-broadcast. So non-paid anything. So if it's on the website or just their regular social media, there's a different price for if they're actually paying for promotion because in that case it's almost like, well your voice isn't going to be used for something similar if it's really a big campaign because your competitor isn't gonna want to use the same voice. So you might be missing out on work that you might otherwise get, which is kind of what this is, this is giving them the, not exclusive really, but you know, the competitors aren't going to use you for the same stuff. They're just not gonna not gonna do that. So you are essentially doing a work for a client that doesn't want to share you. And so if they don't want to share you, then that takes a certain amount of money to, you know, make up for the fact that I am pretty much exclusive to that brand. So, you know, in that industry, so it's usually separated out by location, by the type of industry and where it's being used. So if it's non-broadcast, it's not such a big deal. If it's broadcast then a lot of people could be hearing it and that client wouldn't want you to be doing the same kind of thing for a competitor. So you know, it's the payment they make to make sure that the voice is theirs for that period of time, right.

Jeff Bullas

00:09:41 - 00:09:49

So that's interesting. I didn't, I wasn't aware of that. So is there, how do you set a price on that? Is there a going rate in the industry?

Jodi Krangle

00:09:50 - 00:10:35

There is something called the GVAA rate guide that a lot of voice actors will use as a base and it really depends on, you know, a lot of it depends on how long you've been doing this, you know, who your clients are. People charge more or less depending on their experience but there is a general bottom line of approximately how much it would be on that rate guide. Yeah, so industry standard rates are there. People can charge whatever they want really, but that should be the basics and then people sometimes charge more and you know, I will admit I do sometimes charge more. It just depends on the project.

Jeff Bullas

00:10:36 - 00:11:45

Yeah and I suppose as you've increased your presence in different industries, I suppose your rate has gone up because you've generated a, I suppose a brand name for voice. So what, tell us a little bit about the power of voice and what’s maybe underrated as a marketing tool, as a branding tool. What are some of the things that people should be thinking about? Because I, for example, when I started my podcast, I went and you can go to sites and I create, got some intro music that I paid for as a one-off fee rather than have to pay a license fee. So I picked an intro. I don't know whether the intro is good or not. I like it's upbeat. I can't change my voice. I can maybe speak using different tones, intonation. So I'm, I just come on the podcast and talk. I just try to make sure that people understand me. I speak clearly and use good words. But tell us a little bit about the important elements people should consider when they use voice for branding and marketing. What have you discovered over the years?

Jodi Krangle

00:11:46 - 00:13:10

Well, it really does depend on what your brand stands for. So what you would call your brand DNA. So if you have a particular person that you are hoping is going to listen to your podcast, what does that person like and where does what you like meet in the middle? So, because that way they will get you, they will understand where you're coming from and who you are and they understand that by your voice. So, I mean you're just talking, that's fine. That's what you want to do because that's who you are in audio format, right. So you don't want to put anything on, you don't want to do anything that isn't you because that's who they're connecting with, right, they’re connecting with you. Now as far as branding music and an intro outro for your podcast is concerned. That's kind of, you know, it depends on what you want to do with that. A lot of people will say when it comes to podcasts that if you are a male podcast host that a female intro or outro might be really good for you as the contrast and likewise the other way around. But it depends. I mean if your brand is you, then maybe you should do your intro. There's nothing wrong with that at all. So yeah, I mean it just depends. But really it is a meeting in the middle of who your listeners are and who you are.

Jeff Bullas

00:13:10 - 00:13:17

So in other words, authenticity sounds like it's very, very important then.

Jodi Krangle

00:13:17 - 00:13:48

It is very important, especially now because the younger generations are like, their BSO meters are way up here and I can tell you that voice overs in general have changed as a result because, you know, we can't put on anything anymore. We just can't, they can smell it in the second. So I, any time I'm doing a voice over, I have to be me, just better. That's all it is.

Jeff Bullas

00:13:50 - 00:14:21

So and how do you be you better, in terms of, what are some tips there? Is it being a good listener especially on a podcast asking active questions, being tentative in your responses? So what other tips would you recommend to podcasters, for example, in terms of how they approach it because you're the voice expert. Are there any tips you learned along the way? Because I think you've done over 130 episodes in your podcast.

Jodi Krangle

00:14:21 - 00:14:28

Yeah, I have. And I'm still learning. Yeah, definitely. There is a lot to learn. Yeah.

Jeff Bullas

00:14:29 - 00:14:40

And it's interesting to watch people. For fun, I went back to see Joe Rogan's original episodes that he recorded, which by the way, were terrible.

Jodi Krangle

00:14:40 - 00:14:53

Yeah, it doesn't surprise me. I think if you went back to mine, you definitely would, would be astounded at how bad it might be. But yeah, you learn as you go. Yeah.

Jeff Bullas

00:14:53 - 00:15:58

Well I think the learning is in the doing and I think this is what a lot of people, oh, I need to go and do a degree in marketing. Well, guess what, digital marketing and basically direct marketing is hardly is not taught generally very well at university. I think almost everyone I know who's a digital marketer, top people in the States they've learned by doing. And this is what I recommend to anyone is, you've got to be willing to be imperfect, authentically imperfect and just have some fun along the way and be real. And so I've got an idea, for example, the moment that I'm thinking of just interviewing my marketing, having a chat with my marketing manager where we talk about what we're trying to do to help people and we're going to do with the marketing and just be real and have a deep authentic conversation that we maybe share, I don't know, we're about to do a little test on that

Jodi Krangle

00:15:58 - 00:15:59

I think it's a great idea.

Jeff Bullas

00:15:59 - 00:16:41

Yeah, and that will be a discussion, for example, I went for a walk today and discovered that taking the scenic route rather than the frenetic route, in other words, where efficiency and productivity meet taking time out to actually time to think so, yeah, and it's really interesting is to reflect, but to openly reflect maybe and be really authentic. So in terms of podcasting, what have you learned that's really important from your perspective that you would

Jodi Krangle

00:16:42 - 00:18:43

The active listening. That's a really good one. Yes. So asking questions in between as your, as things are occurring to you, keeping in mind that your listener isn't maybe as in on the inside information as you are. So, for instance, if I was talking about SEO, I would say, well that is search engine optimization for people who don't know, right. So things like, you know, short forms and things like that that people might not be aware of. So just being aware of what you're saying that other people may not understand if they aren't in your same industry. That's a good thing to keep in mind. But you know, also when you were talking about taking the scenic route, that kind of occurred to me that, you know, people sometimes forget to breathe. I know it sounds silly but that's the whole, that's where all the uhms and the you knows and the likes and all of the filler words come from because we forget to breathe. We just need to give ourselves that time to take a moment and think things through. And when you give yourself that moment, you do have less of those filler words. So it helps things like that. And if you're really nervous, this is another thing that, it was actually a woman named Cynthia Gi on my podcast who mentioned this and she said just sigh. Take a deep breath, let it out because you can't remain tense when you're letting out a breath. It's really hard to do that when you're taking a sigh. So it just relaxes you in the moment. That's good for public speaking too, just taking a moment letting you know, taking a breath and letting it out that can generally calm you down a lot. And then when you're more aware of everything around you, you can be a better guest, a better podcast host. All of these things fall into place.

Jeff Bullas

00:18:44 - 00:18:46

The power of the pause.

Jodi Krangle

00:18:46 - 00:18:50

Yes, exactly. There's something to be said for silence.

Jeff Bullas

00:18:51 - 00:19:10

You mentioned using industry speak or terms such as SEO and I remember when I first discovered the acronym SEO, I think it took me about a week or two to remember what it meant and we get trapped in our own industry and

Jodi Krangle

00:19:10 - 00:19:11

Totally.

Jeff Bullas

00:19:12 - 00:19:33

So the reality is that and what I've learned and I came up with a term, “if you see an acronym, “shoot it” or “hear an acronym, shoot it”. Because people aren't going to understand from outside your industry and the technology industry is full of acronyms.

Jodi Krangle

00:19:34 - 00:19:47

Oh yes it is. But you know any industry is full of those. We just have to keep in mind that the people outside of our industry may not understand everything that we think is self explanatory.

Jeff Bullas

00:19:47 - 00:20:47

Yeah, exactly. So you've got to use common language. One of the things I learned early on was, and because I was accused of this by my cousin who was two years older than me and he worked, he was in the country and I used to try and impress him with big words and he told me one day, he said stop using big words, Jeff, I don't understand them and I really don't like them. And I went okay. And that was a lesson that I remember from being I think a 13 or 14 year old. When I started writing, I realized that I was trying to be clever again and using big words. But the best, the power of simple words people underestimate and it's really important to use words that a grade five student would understand and that's hard for us to use sometimes.

Jodi Krangle

00:20:47 - 00:20:58

It definitely is. Yeah. Yeah. But you know it's who you're talking to right? So read the room, that's what it is really.

Jeff Bullas

00:20:59 - 00:21:18

So what have you discovered about the power of words you've, because voice is one thing, words are another but we speak with words. So what have you learned about the power of certain words? Positive words, negative words? Is that something you've learned along the way?

Jodi Krangle

00:21:18 - 00:22:03

Well I think that words mean different things to different people. So really all it is intonation and context I think is really important. So that's where sound comes in because you know you could, you could say you know, oh I had a great day today or you could say oh I had a great day today and there are two completely different meanings but the same words. So it really depends on not only what words you're using but your intonation and inflection and context because a lot of that is going to come through in the way that you speak and that's why sound is so important in a lot of ways.

Jeff Bullas

00:22:05 - 00:22:27

So that makes me think of either using rising intonation or lowering intonation, maybe I’m using the wrong terms here. What does that sort of, is that important in terms of how you're getting a message across like you raise your tone or lower it? Do you know what I mean?

Jodi Krangle

00:22:28 - 00:23:40

Yeah, I do. I think that it depends on what you're trying to get across. So you know, it depends on what your emotion is at the time. I think that when people are angry or upset that their tone tends to get louder and higher. So if you don't want to sound like you're angry or upset, you may want to make sure that you keep your tone lower and your voice a little lower so that it's not intimidating or confrontational to someone else. So, you know, there are, but there are different contexts, right? Like everyone has different contexts for sound. So even though we think that it's universal and in a lot of ways it can be, there are different languages that use different intonations in different ways than English for instance, and we just have to keep in mind who we're talking to, where we're talking to them and what we're trying to get across. So it's just something to be aware of. Again, it's that whole read the room.

Jeff Bullas

00:23:42 - 00:24:12

Yeah, that makes me think of another thing that I think works and I'll be interested in your thoughts on this is that if you're speaking to a very quietly spoken person and you're speaking with very high energy, they may be feeling, may feel threatened by that versus if you match their tone so that they feel comfortable with you to actually have a better conversation. What do you think about that? Is that something that you should be mindful of?

Jodi Krangle

00:24:13 - 00:25:24

I think definitely you should be mindful of how you communicate with anyone. You know, everyone has their own unique quirks as far as how they communicate. And yeah, I think definitely paying attention to how someone prefers to be talked to is definitely a good thing. But you know, it's again, I think it can be one of those things where just being aware of the energy of the person that you're speaking with and again, if they're shy, then, you know, getting in their face and yelling at them is probably not going to be a good thing. That's just not gonna work for you. So yeah, I think matching people's energy is probably pretty important and again, it has to do with the words you use and the intonation and the tone and the volume and again, you know, not being so close, maybe like personal space is a good thing too, you know, but we're getting into psychology here and that's not really my area of expertise.

Jeff Bullas

00:25:24 - 00:25:34

Well, it's very interesting, especially personal space that brings up, which is something that we don't have on Zoom because you are about 20,000 km away.

Jodi Krangle

00:25:35 - 00:25:38

That is true.

Jeff Bullas

00:25:39 - 00:25:53

But if you're talking to someone in real life and you're right up there, it's really fascinating in different cultures. So uhm, there I used a filler word, so I've really got to be mindful of that.

Jodi Krangle

00:25:53 - 00:25:55

You can use them every once in a while. There's no problem.

Jeff Bullas

00:25:55 - 00:25:58

It's when they become common. I think it's a bit of a problem.

Jodi Krangle

00:25:59 - 00:26:00

Yes.

Jeff Bullas

00:26:00 - 00:26:50

I went to India and talking about personal space and communication and words and I remember first time I went to India and ran some presentations and workshops at Bombay Institute of Technology and it was fascinating because personal space is dictated by how crowded a place you are brought up in and live in. Now India is incredibly crowded. So I was really confronted by the students who came up to me wanting to ask questions after the speaking event and workshop and they were like literally in my face. I'm talking 30 cm and for them that was comfortable. For me, it was intimidating.

Jodi Krangle

00:26:52 - 00:27:04

Yeah. Different cultures and different ways to be brought up. Yeah. So we just all have to be aware that our reality may not be someone else's. That's really what it comes down to.

Jeff Bullas

00:27:04 - 00:27:06

It comes down to self awareness, doesn't it?

Jodi Krangle

00:27:06 - 00:27:10

Yes. Yeah. And not everyone is.

Jeff Bullas

00:27:11 - 00:27:34

Well that's really, really important. I remember doing a six month personal development, six months of counseling course and that was one of the most both confronting and best learning experiences I've ever had because it helped me with self awareness and because we got feedback on small classes about how you came across.

Jodi Krangle

00:27:36 - 00:27:41

That's a tough one. And it's also pretty subjective,

Jeff Bullas

00:27:42 - 00:27:47

It is. But if most of the class told you that that's how you came across,

Jodi Krangle

00:27:48 - 00:27:53

There's some grain of truth in it. Yes.

Jeff Bullas

00:27:53 - 00:28:42

So it was very confronting and I remember it was both big group classes and very small group classes were very intense and it was one of the most powerful six months of learning I've ever had in my life. And I think being aware is very, very important. And just that cut that intuition you get.

So let's move on to if you work for a client. Do you take a brief and do you help with the construction of the words and what you're going to say? What's your process for taking a brief from a client? I suppose it would differ depending on whether it's a large client or a smaller client. So what's the process view for doing a voiceover brief for their marketing, for their ad? How do you do that?

Jodi Krangle

00:28:43 - 00:32:07

Well, usually they bring the script to me because they have a script writer. So they have a very, they have a message that they want to get across and they want to make sure that they hire the right voice to get that message across. The voice that matches their brand as close as they can get. So the, the voice that they had in their head when they wrote the script and that can be very subjective, definitely. But generally people approach me when they have an idea in mind of the type of sound thereafter. And I have demos on my website that illustrate different types of reads. So there's a demo on my website, for instance, for my commercial work that goes through about 5 or 6 different options. So everything from warm and friendly to a little gravitas with authoritative kind of an idea to inspirational, you know, awestruck over something or, you know, just a general, here's the product, I don't care if you like it, I like it, go ahead, you know, that kind of idea. Like there's all sorts of varying degrees of different options that it's still me, it's still my voice, but it's different emotions coming through in the voice because of the different scripts, because of the different companies. So, like I said, it's me, but better because it's me really caring about their product for a particular reason. So me finding what they do inspirational, which really isn't a stretch for me because in a lot of cases that's how I feel about my clients, what they do inspires me. And so I like putting that forward in the voice that I use for them, but generally they've already got the script, it's already written, they just need me to record it and send them options. And once they've told me approximately what voice on my demos they were thinking this spot would work with, I can get them pretty much exactly what they want. But a lot of the time, the words they use as we were just talking about words, it has a lot to do with how I end up performing the script because the words informed me how they should be performed. If there's a lot of descriptive words, if there is almost a poem on the page, then I know that that is going to have visuals to go along with it. If there's a lot of emoting and a lot of words on that page, I know it's probably not going to be visual and I'm going to have to carry everything, which is generally what happens with streaming radio and regular radio and podcasts and that kind of thing. So, you know, you have to sort of decide, well, where is this going to be heard and who is the audience and who is the company and what does the company want to get across to this audience. And the music that they choose, actually, the music can really help me get the right tone for what they want as well. So there's a whole lot that goes into that, often they can't supply the music to me beforehand, they're picking that later. But if they can give me the music beforehand, wow, that makes a huge difference.

Jeff Bullas

00:32:08 - 00:32:17

Right. So, whether you're painting a picture with words or whether there's not enough words to paint a picture

Jodi Krangle

00:32:17 - 00:32:36

Yeah, exactly. So if I'm not painting a picture with words, then clearly I am emphasizing or enhancing what's on the screen, so people are looking at the same time they're listening and that does definitely have a different read than being everything on a radio spot.

Jeff Bullas

00:32:37 - 00:32:47

So, is your area of expertise and doing voices. Is it more art than science?

Jodi Krangle

00:32:48 - 00:34:09

Oh, it's a bit of both, I would say, because, again, that whole understanding the script and where it might be heard, that's kind of science really, and understanding the tone of voice that might work with the audience they're trying to reach, and the tone that might work with that audience, that's kind of a mix between the art and the science, because I can only do it from my perspective, right? That's why they're hiring me, because they thought that my perspective would work for their audience. That's what audio branding really is. It's giving people a perspective, that is a real choice and some people will get that and some people won't and those people that don't are not the people you want doing, you know, buying your product, I mean, not every product is right for every person.

So marketing, you know, marketing 101 is going to tell you that your product can't be for everyone, you're going to have a specific audience and you need to focus in on that audience and make them, you know, big fans because that's how you're going to get your point across and get your product or service sold.

Jeff Bullas

00:34:10 - 00:34:17

Yeah. So do you do any research on the client's audience or they, you ask for information from them regarding that?

Jodi Krangle

00:34:18 - 00:35:17

A little of both, actually, a lot of what they do is already online so I can do some research beforehand. A lot of time, they will supply me with a video or that they've done in the past or a video that they like the sound of or the feel of and that can really help along as well. So there's, there's a lot to this and yeah, it is both an art and a science because after 15 years of doing this full time, I have managed to get to a point where I can pretty much understand what they're trying to get across in a pretty short amount of time and it doesn't take me as long to get there as it used to. Just because I've done it so many times before. So, and I, you know, you tend to get hired for the same things over and over again just because your voice lends itself to certain industries and that's fine. I have no complaints there.

Jeff Bullas

00:35:17 - 00:35:29

So you've come to a point, we're doing this for so long, you've got unconscious expertise that you maybe could have would almost struggle to say what you do and what you do well, because it's just,

Jodi Krangle

00:35:29 - 00:35:32

Yeah, it's hard to explain. Yeah.

Jeff Bullas

00:35:33 - 00:35:44

Yeah. Alright, so one thing I'd like to touch on too is why did you start the podcast? Was that just because you like talking?

Jodi Krangle

00:35:45 - 00:39:38

Well, I mean I do like talking, I mean, you know those of us who make a living doing this kind of have to but yeah, I'll admit, I'll admit to it. There you go. But I will say that one of the reasons, one of the big reasons I wanted to do this was because I ended up being the bow on the present or the icing on the cake more times than I could ever mention. And what would happen is people would come to me with a script, which is often what they do and they would have already done everything else and my voice had to fit into the part that they were using it for. Whereas I think if they had thought about this beforehand, if they had crafted the music, if they had music that was already theirs that fit their company DNA. That really told people who they were, if they had other audible touchpoints that made sense to give them a good idea of, to give people outside of their company a good idea of who they were, even people inside their company. Because I mean that whole audio branding thing can work inside the company as well. The people who work for you need to know who you are too, so that they can tell other people right? So it just seemed to me, yeah, it seemed to me like if they thought about the audio beforehand, if they gave it a little more thought that the cohesive whole would be much more hard hitting, it would emotionally resonate with people a lot better. And I wanted to understand why my clients were hiring me. What were they hiring me for? I am one small part in the very large umbrella that is audio branding. There is a lot of different moving parts in that underneath that umbrella and I wanted to understand what went into that so that I could better service my clients and I actually have ended up interviewing a lot of my clients because, you know, I want to know what they're thinking and I think it would be useful for other people to know what they're thinking. And I interview a lot of audio branding companies who take that whole idea of representing a company in their audio form to the end level. So, you know, I talked with someone who was doing some of the music for the Mastercard brand and I've talked with people who've worked on huge accounts, who are still doing this on a regular basis and it's always a journey for both the company and the audio branding company. And there's so much more to learn. And it's very, it's very psychological how hard hitting sound can be for us emotionally. So the way that I usually explain this is, it impressed upon me that when I didn't want to be scared by a horror film, I would turn off the sound cause think about that, right. You know what's going on. You can see what's going on. It may be gory. It may not be whatever, right? But if the music or the sound effects or the screaming or whatever is going on there isn't happening. You have no emotional context or investment in what you're looking at. So if you think about that, if you extrapolate that. Without sound, we don't have any emotional investment. So with sound, you have emotional investment, which means really, as far as marketing is concerned, we should be using that to make more of an emotional impact on the people who experience our brands and it's important. It's a lot more important, I think than people believe.

Jeff Bullas

00:39:39 - 00:40:11

It's certainly an art and a science and I think active listening for me has been one of the best skills I became aware of and learned at that six-months course. Now it sounds to me to in listening to what you said that you were doing or what you're learning from your podcast. The two main reasons that you seem to enjoy it from my listening to what you said was number one, you learned so much from your guests.

Jodi Krangle

00:40:11 - 00:40:17

I do a lot. Yes, it's really fantastic to be able to learn that. Yeah, and invaluable.

Jeff Bullas

00:40:19 - 00:40:41

Because you're talking to people that have been doing this for decades, that are experts in their field and they're gonna be experts in different nuances of what you do from whether it's sound, whether it's music, and then on the other hand, you mentioned that you talk to your clients and interview them. So what I hear that are also important to you from a podcast is its relationship building.

Jodi Krangle

00:40:42 - 00:41:43

Oh definitely, definitely. I think all podcasting, if you're interviewing anyone, I think all of it is creating relationships, definitely. So yeah, creating relationships with my guests is always top of my mind because we can help each other. I think there's something to be said for that and you know, it's not going to happen tomorrow, it may never happen. It doesn't have to, but, you know, if I know someone is a real expert in their field in some particular thing and someone I know needs that expertise, I'm likely to suggest the guest I just had or you know, like that's what happens. So, yeah, I think it is very much about creating relationships and I think podcasts have become a great way to do that because you can have really interesting deep conversations with people that you may not necessarily have ever gotten to chat with before and yet they're on your podcast.

Jeff Bullas

00:41:44 - 00:42:39

Exactly. And if you're willing to listen and reflect actively back to it, I've usually, I walk away from every podcast with just little gems that I've either taken notes or they're burned into my memory and I am so grateful to have spent some time in the same virtual room to learn from an expert, a guru. So, and I love it. You get insights that sometimes blow you away and you're going, wow, that's interesting and how can I apply that? And quite often I will take what they've shared with me and apply it to what I'm doing, whether it's life or business, so yeah, and one of the things that pushed me across the line to start the podcast after buying the equipment three years before and putting in a dark cupboard.

Jodi Krangle

00:42:39 - 00:42:48

Oh no, okay, and it was not the first time I've heard that by the way, it happened a lot.

Jeff Bullas

00:42:49 - 00:44:20

I knew that podcasting, a lot of people look at podcasting going, oh this is easy, I just catch up with a mate, sit at the bar and have a chat. In fact I came across a guy started a beer podcast because he started out of spite and because someone was trolling him on Twitter and then he did this really bad podcast, you know using a stand jammed into a styrofoam block. So it was really, but for me it was that when I looked at the benefits of a podcast, the number one thing that pushed me over the line was this is a relationship building exercise and I've discovered there's a lot of bonuses along the way that go way beyond that. But I think if you just look at, be grateful and learn and build a relationship and have a conversation for 30-40 minutes or 15 or 20, it doesn't really matter. You are sharing someone's expertise with the world and it's fun doing that. I love the term used for that's called the Oprah effect, shining the light on someone else. So and it's yeah, it's fantastic. And we've got the technology now to make it a lot easier. So Zoom records in video and audio. And now there's technology which takes a transcript or machine. Technology takes the voice and turns it into a transcript. So it's a lot easier than it was.

Jodi Krangle

00:44:21 - 00:44:29

Oh yes, definitely. Yeah. I will say though that I have an editor and I am very, very glad to have an editor.

Jeff Bullas

00:44:29 - 00:45:17

Yeah, well I have a video editor and video and audio editor as well and we record this in three media and that's the other thing to keep in mind is that podcasting is three different types of media at least. We can turn it from voice, we recorded in video and also we can turn into text so it's text, video and audio. A lot of people don't realize that they can also turn it into snippets and that's where editing becomes really, really important. So I don't know about you but we typically turn this into six or seven snippets that grabbed the little nuggets of wisdom hopefully from the interviews.

Jodi Krangle

00:45:18 - 00:46:20

Sure. Yeah, I've only started recording video as well. I'm using riverside.fm and I actually have an audio engineer who's running those sessions which makes it a lot easier for me because then I can just concentrate on speaking to my guest which I really appreciate. So that records both the audio and the video and then my editor will take that and start making snippets and maybe longer, maybe five minutes or so things that I can put up on YouTube. So up until now, I've just been doing static image with the full episode, which is usually a 60 minute episode split into two. So I will actually have someone do a full interview and then I'll have their interview go to be released over two weeks, which gives me a bit of a buffer. So that's how I have managed to work out doing this on a weekly basis and given myself enough buffer that I'm not rushing around.

Jeff Bullas

00:46:21 - 00:46:24

Do you record weekly? What's your rhythm?

Jodi Krangle

00:46:25 - 00:48:07

You know, it depends. I do a pre interview usually before I have anyone on the show mostly because I wanna, well my topic is really specific and so if someone isn't really working in the area of sound, they're kind of not the greatest fit for my podcast. And so I want to make sure that whoever I'm talking to isn't just working on it on the peripheral, you know, like, oh, I just started thinking about this, I'd like to talk about it. No, that's not what I'm, I'm not here for that. You better be working in this on a regular basis because what I'm trying to do is make people aware of how important it is. And if you only just discovered it or you're only just started, you know, using sound on a regular basis for whatever reason, that's not really telling them how important it is because you just discovered it. So yeah, it's one of those things I have to be kind of picky. So I have a pre interview usually lasts, I don't know, 30 minutes or less depends. We kind of go through questions we would ask, kind of like the way we started this and you know, and then from there I give them a form that they can fill out, which, you know, is pretty simple. Just the regular stuff like their bio and their social media links and that kind of thing. And they then are automatically sent to a Calendly where they can book in their time and you know, it just, it depends on who I'm talking with at any given time. So sometimes I'll have, you know, three in a week and sometimes I'll have one in three weeks. So it just depends.

Jeff Bullas

00:48:07 - 00:48:13

So what technology to use to record is that the platform FM. Something you mentioned.

Jodi Krangle

00:48:13 - 00:48:52

Yeah riverside.fm is what it's called. Yeah. And it's actually a really good system. They have very good audio that is recorded locally on everyone's machines. So there's no interruption with the internet, which, you know, can be a big problem. And the video is high quality. It's really outstanding quality. I've been super impressed. And it records each person individually so you can take those individual videos for each person that was speaking and merge them together or do whatever you want to do with them really.

Jeff Bullas

00:48:52 - 00:49:23

I think when I started off, so I looked at a few different options in terms of technology and then I discovered Zoom. Did all that you just mentioned, records separate audio. The recording is generally, you know, high quality amd less internet is a little bit poor. And but generally I think over 130,138 episodes for me too. I think we're up to 127, 128

Jodi Krangle

00:49:24 - 00:49:25

Congratulations.

Jeff Bullas

00:49:25 - 00:49:52

And it's been really good and I think the internet has become a little bit like electricity now. It's a pretty utility now, so and what I love about Zoom for me and this is the technology I use, which we're using right here right now is that it's ubiquitous. Pretty well, everyone knows how to use it. So because the pandemic has given us training.

Jodi Krangle

00:49:52 - 00:49:59

So. True, yes, not the greatest reason for it to happen, but yeah.

Jeff Bullas

00:50:00 - 00:50:07

Exactly. So, one last question. So when you go to a dinner party, are you the voice in the room?

Jodi Krangle

00:50:07 - 00:50:44

Usually no, yeah, in social gatherings I tend to be kind of quiet actually, I'm more of an introvert than I am an extrovert. So yeah, it just depends on the gathering, it depends on if I know everyone in the room, you know, if it's my family we’re generally yelling at each other just because that's how we operate. And it's not, it's not bad, it's not bad yelling, it's just like we all want to get our position heard and everyone's talking over each other. That's kind of how we operate.

Jeff Bullas

00:50:44 - 00:50:47

Friendly shouting banter. There you go.

Jodi Krangle

00:50:47 - 00:50:49

Yeah, exactly.

Jeff Bullas

00:50:51 - 00:51:17

So just to wind it up, Jody and it's been, thank you very much for your time and I've learned a lot today. What are the top tips that you'd recommend to entrepreneurs that are thinking of doing a podcast or using voice in their marketing for their products and services. What may be a top couple of tips or one, it really doesn't matter.

Jodi Krangle

00:51:18 - 00:52:54

Well, I mean, if you're going to start a podcast, I would say start a podcast and worry about everything else as you go, because you're gonna learn as you go as we just talked about. So I don't think that anything should stop you from starting that podcast. As you learn, I think that you should pay a lot of attention to the quality of your sound because people, if they're watching video, that video isn't going to stop them from watching, but bad audio is going to stop them from listening. Audio is one of those things where we don't really pay a huge amount of attention to it unless it's bad, it tends to be kind of like part of everything and it really only becomes annoying if it's bad and the idea is that you never want to be annoying, you know, as as we're all aware, right? Marketing 101 again, right? Don't be annoying. So, yeah, sound is important. But beyond that, I think it can actually help you make a deeper connection with the people that you're trying to reach. So paying attention to your sound as another character in your presentation is I think a good thing to think about. So the video isn't the only thing that's important, the sound is important because that's how people are going to get the emotion that they should feel when they experience your brand. Seeing it may not do that, but audio is definitely going to do that.

Jeff Bullas

00:52:55 - 00:53:01

Yeah. With reality is you're having a one on one conversation at scale with the world.

Jodi Krangle

00:53:02 - 00:55:08

Exactly. Yeah. And it can make the difference between someone thinking you have a cheap product or an expensive one, right. Like think of the sounds that a kettle makes when it's finished, we're gonna, you know, I mean, you know, yeah, it's screaming, but at the same time, it could make another noise, you know, when you're opening your fridge, when you're opening your car door, when you're opening a Snapple bottle. I mean like, I don't know if you know what Snapple is. It's like a fruit drink. And the whole idea of Snapple is that it was a glass bottle, like a personal, you know, like this, this size, right? So like a personal bottle that you twist the top of and it makes this little pop, right. So that pop is a very characteristic sound of Snapple and it's so characteristic that when they decided to move from glass bottles to plastic bottles, they wanted to make sure that the way that top came off sounded the same way that it did when you took it off a glass bottle. So there are things like that, like electric cars that they have no real sound, you have to add sound to them to get them to sound like a car. So yeah, so there's, you know, things like that. They all make an impression on us and and and things like we expect to hear the sound of a click when we take a photograph on our phone. But our phone doesn't have a shutter anymore. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't need to make that sound. It's just that satisfying click so that we know something happened.

Sound is everywhere. It impresses us in everything that we do but it's very in the background. We don't think about it because it's just part of our everyday lives and psychologically we can use that

Jeff Bullas

00:55:09 - 00:55:11

Either to impress or to annoy.

Jodi Krangle

00:55:11 - 00:55:39

Well exactly yeah it can, it can definitely do both things. But you know like there's things like vacuum cleaners or leaf blowers, those don't have to be as loud as they are. They don't, they just are because they were in the past and if they're not that loud we don't think they're working.

That's an actual thing. That is a psychological thing. We don't think they're working if they're not loud, that's how powerful sound is.

Jeff Bullas

00:55:40 - 00:55:45

Yeah. And taste all those sorts of senses that we

Jodi Krangle

00:55:45 - 00:55:46

They all work together.

Jeff Bullas

00:55:46 - 00:56:06

That makes us human. Absolutely. And what you just mentioned about the importance of sound was I was listening to a podcast and I listened to podcasts generally in the car and I'm not watching any vision because otherwise I would be a very dangerous driver.

Jodi Krangle

00:56:07 - 00:56:11

Yes, exactly. I would not be on the road with you.

Jeff Bullas

00:56:11 - 00:56:21

But there was two elements that came to mind. There was a lady interviewing a man and her voice was annoying.

Jodi Krangle

00:56:21 - 00:56:23

Okay. Yeah.

Jeff Bullas

00:56:23 - 00:56:34

And there was also another issue and this comes down to editing in that her annoying voice was very loud and his voice, which was okay, was quite soft.

Jodi Krangle

00:56:35 - 00:56:38

Oh, okay. That's a problem.

Jeff Bullas

00:56:38 - 00:56:50

It got to a point where I was changing the volume, turning it down and I went, no, this is too annoying. So that podcast got canceled as in I stopped listening to it.

Jodi Krangle

00:56:51 - 00:57:21

And it could have been a great podcast, right? But if that person doesn't pay attention to the sound, I mean, I don't know, I guess people just don't pay attention to it the way that they should and it could be editing. But it surprises me that whoever was putting that together wouldn't have listened to that and said this is going to be a problem. But apparently they didn't, that's how much this is in the background. Do you know what I mean? Like it shouldn't be.

Jeff Bullas

00:57:22 - 00:57:33

And it made me say, well maybe I better listen to my own podcast to see whether the editing is good because I don't like, I don't like listening to me generally.

Jodi Krangle

00:57:33 - 00:57:38

I don't think most people do. Most people don't like listening to themselves.

Jeff Bullas

00:57:38 - 00:58:24

And a friend of mine listen to a episode with Finney and Kelly I had recently and she said, I've just listened to it again. I went, really? I said, well, I better, I better go and listen to my interview with Finney and I actually listened to the whole episode. I had to hear the end. So I said that's a good podcast. I did notice along the way that I did use too many filler words like um and ah so I learned there were some things that I could work on and that's important, isn't it? In terms of sound, how can I improve the sound that will get people to leave it running.

Jodi Krangle

00:58:25 - 00:58:54

We can always improve. And I am still improving both by taking coaching for my voice overs. Like I am never, I never stop learning. I don't think anyone should stop learning. There's always gonna be a new trend. There's always gonna be something new to learn, a new genre I want to pick up all sorts of things that I could learn more about and that is important. It's important to not stagnate. I think as human beings. I think that's important for all of us.

Jeff Bullas

00:58:55 - 00:59:00

I think you've just summed up beautifully, life is about learning

Jodi Krangle

00:59:00 - 00:59:02

It definitely. Yes.

Jeff Bullas

00:59:03 - 00:59:13

And I think that is a great way to wind this up and I'm so grateful for you sharing your knowledge and passion for voice and importance of sound.

Jodi Krangle

00:59:13 - 00:59:14

Thanks for having me.

Jeff Bullas

00:59:14 - 00:59:26

I look forward to maybe grabbing a Snapple juice with you in Toronto. At some stage. It might be a beer, even it might be a wine.

Jodi Krangle

00:59:26 - 00:59:33

It could actually be a beer. It won't pop the same way, but it'll be good.

Jeff Bullas

00:59:34 - 00:59:44

So thank you, Jody, for your time. And if anyone wants to contact you, what's the easiest way to do that? If they want a voice over expert.

Jodi Krangle

00:59:44 - 01:00:17

Well, you can get in touch with me on the podcast at, actually not on the podcast, on my website, which the podcast is also on, which is voiceoversandvocals.com. And the podcast is actually at audiobrandingpodcast.com. And I do have clubhouse discussions on Wednesdays at 2pm Eastern that are all about the power of sound. That's the name of the club. I guess it depends on where your listeners are tuning in from 2 PM Eastern could be a weird time for some people.

Jeff Bullas

01:00:17 - 01:00:22

Some could be skiing, some could be napping.

Jodi Krangle

01:00:22 - 01:00:28

Exactly, yes. You never know. Yeah. But if people are interested they can find me weekly on clubhouse.

Jeff Bullas

01:00:29 - 01:00:40

Right. Thanks for sharing your passion about sound and I'm so grateful to be able to share you with my audience. Thanks, Jody.

Jodi Krangle

01:00:41 - 01:00:41

Thank you.